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Current Replies for Shoal vs std keel
 
question Shoal vs std keel (neil)
Posted: 4:01:58 pm on 8/16/2011 Modified: Never
 
My wife and I are considering making an offer on a very nice C&C 27 Mark V. We'll be using it for primarily for daysailing but might get involved in the local evening races. This particular boat was built in Portsmouth RI has the seemingly rare optional shoal draft keel (3'6"). I understand that this boat will probably not point as high as a standard keel version. My question is, to what extent? Can we still expect performance reasonably close to the standard version? Will there be other points of sail where there may be a noticeable difference (maybe an improvement)? Thanks. Neil Dawson
Narragansett Bay
Rhode Island
  Re: Shoal vs std keel (bosco)
Posted: 4:30:23 pm on 8/18/2011 Modified: Never
 
Hi Neil,  
 If your potential boat has a shoal draft keel and you are intending to race under some recognized handicapping system (such as  PHRF etc.) the handicap assigned to your boat will , in theory, compensate for the differences between a shoal draft and a regular draft keel.  
Clare Jordan
ARAGORN
  Re: Shoal vs std keel (oasis)
Posted: 10:22:48 am on 8/19/2011 Modified: Never
 
Hi.

I have sailed a 1987 MkV shoal keel (no. 575), built in Rhode Island, for 6 years now.  I do not race.  (Though a friend of mine says that anytime there are two boats out there is a race - a lot of truth in that!)The person I bought it from did race, and told me that it did not point as high as deep keel boats.  A couple of years ago my friend had his C&C 29 Mk 2 out when I was out.  He certainly could point higher.  I have since upgraded my sails, and I can say it certainly improved my boat's pointing ability, but I have not formally tested it out with his boat.  

What I can tell you is that in my experience pointing ability, or perceived pointing ability, is impacted by wind and wave conditions.  At 10 to 12 knots of wind it is amazing how well she goes into the wind.  That falls off a bit at 15 plus knots. I hesitate to put numbers on it, but on a recent trip, in quite heavy wind and waves, I could manage a little over 90 degrees tacks, but found it more efficient to go 95 to 100 degrees.  Don't take that to the bank, because that is a sample of one observation on one day at one sail setting only.  And, having said that, please note that sail trim and condition is extremely important and can make a huge difference, especially the genoa - the difference between a stretched out one, and a nice crisp tight one is not subtle.  

I can say that the boat is a great performer, and can knock the socks off the Tanzer 26's and other boats of its size.  And that is without handicapping! (As an aside - my fried races his 29, and wins some and loses some.  Recently one of the Tanzer 26's beat him on the handicap even though my friend's time was considerably quicker.  Wining is nice, but so is coming in ahead of the other boats!)    

Sorry for rambling on.  In closing, I can say that it is a great boat.  I both cruise and day sail, mostly solo, and it does not disappoint. The shoal keel makes pull outs and trailering much easier, and is a definite advantage for lake sailors such as me.  If racing were my priority, I might think twice, but for me it is even more than I expected, and I would buy it again.

Hope this helps.  If you have any specific questions, please ask - I read the forum almost daily.

Barry, Oasis, 1987 Mk V
  Re: Shoal vs std keel (JWente)
Posted: 4:40:41 pm on 8/19/2011 Modified: Never
 
if you want to race find one with a full keel. Shoal will not be fast.
Jim
  Re: Shoal vs std keel (JWente)
Posted: 8:27:20 pm on 8/26/2011 Modified: Never
 
not fast, due to shoal keel
also the mast is 2 feet shorter
  Re: Shoal vs std keel (oasis)
Posted: 9:52:26 pm on 8/27/2011 Modified: Never
 
The mast is the same.  I bought a used main and genoa from a full keel Mk V for my shoal keel.  Exactly the same size.

As for speed, the only difference, I believe, is the slightly decreased pointing ability when beating.  Boat is very quick.


You might be thinking of a Wave 26, which has a 30 inch winged keel and a smaller rig.  

Barry, Oasis, 1987 Mk V
  Re: Shoal vs std keel (bosco)
Posted: 9:56:58 pm on 8/27/2011 Modified: Never
 
if you want to race find one with a full keel. Shoal will not be fast.
Jim

Hey guys, If racing was all about crossing the line first, the larger boats would always win. Since we don't all own the same type/size of boat, we try to equalize the playing field with a variety of handicapping  systems, none of which is absolute, but better than "MY BOAT IS BIGGER AND FASTER THAN YOURS".

The system I now race under (SLVYRA) is very similar to the former system I had (PHRF-Lake Ontario). The handicap difference shown in SLVYRA between a shoal draft and full keel is 6 seconds/mile for time/distance and 1.00 vs .993 for time /time.

As I said ealier, in theory, given 6 seconds per mile advantage, the shoal draft boat should tie the full keel boat , if they are equally well sailed.

Clare Jordan
ARAGORN