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question Toilet Leak (surf24)
Posted: 10:33:37 pm on 10/2/2011 Modified: 10:14:27 am on 10/3/2011
 
I have a 1985 Mark V and have a Headmaster 1460 in it and it is leaking from somewhere.  Whenever we go out in heavy weather/seas we get a little puddle of water on the floor infront of the toilet.  I can see it's coming from the back somewhere.   We sail with a dry bowl and I have not observered it while under sail because I thought it was coming from the solar vent right above it because the last time I was in heavy weather there were frequent downpours and I was taking water over the bow regularly and later in the slip, saw a drip coming from the solar vent and a puddle of water on the floor.  The last time, no rain but taking water over the bow pretty heavily and consistant.  Checked the vent and it was dry but had grey water puddled on the floor.  I can not see where it is coming from, but it seems to be from the back of the toilet somewhere.  

Any suggestions?

Joe Kiehm
C & C Mark V
Hull #531
Glendale, WI
K.I.S.S.

  Re: Toilet Leak (ALAN FORD)
Posted: 4:09:15 pm on 10/3/2011 Modified: Never
 
I had the same problem but have now narrowed it down to a need to replace the hose clamps. I might also need to replace the hoses.
I have a holding tank, but no overboard discharge. Like you, I found a small amount of water in front of the throne, but only when we had been racing in windy conditions, thus with the rail under water for some time. I have no vent in that area, and the hatch is waterproof. The intake through-hull for the flushing water is well below the level of the toilet and its plumbing when the boat is at rest, or even when sailing in more normal weather. When the boat is heeling and pitching in larger waves it seems possible that the outside water level could be above those hoses and their fittings, thus making positive back pressure throughout the system. That pressure would cause a leak. To test my theory I closed the through-hull valve when we last headed out into 15/18 knot winds, and though we jumped around a bit there was no water on the floor in front of the throne.
My winter project is to change all toilet hosing, and this time to be sure that the hose clamps are installed as shown in the Black Arts article on this subject by David W.

Alan of SMOKE 1984 Mk V 002

  Re: Toilet Leak (oasis)
Posted: 11:55:45 am on 10/7/2011 Modified: Never
 
Different problem, but didn't think I needed a new thread ...

When my Y valve is turned to dump overboard instead of to the sewage tank, I get some water creeping into the toilet even when it is switched to dry bowl.  This happens very slowly at berth, but is much faster and worse when underway in lumpy waters.  I don't recall the toilet brand, but I assume that some valve is leaking in the flush / dry bowl lever set up.  But if so, why is there no leakage back when it is switched to the sewage tank - even when it is completely full?  Don't know what the guts of these toilets and valves look like.  Is this worth trying to repair, or is replacement of the whole toilet a better investment of time and dollars?  Appreciate any advice....

Barry, Oasis, 1987 Mk V
  Re: Toilet Leak (ALAN FORD)
Posted: 11:26:39 am on 10/9/2011 Modified: Never
 
Barry, it sounds as though it is that 'Y' valve that may be your  problem. Is it something that you can reach if you decided to change it? I don't have one, and even THINKING about such a possibility in our part of the World causes feelings of guilt and denial........
Is Oasis a Rhode Island-built Mk V? Perhaps they had "overboard discharge" capability, and the Niagara-on-the-Lake ones didn't. I really don't know, but someone who has your design and problem should be able to come to to your rescue.

Alan of SMOKE 1984 Mk V 002

  Re: Toilet Leak (oasis)
Posted: 6:26:39 pm on 10/9/2011 Modified: Never
 
Thanks Alan.  

Oasis is indeed a Rhode Islander, with overboard discharge capability from the builder.  And it is only with it turned to the overboard position that the leak back occurs.  My speculation is that since the discharge is below the waterline, as is the toilet, increased pressure sailing in lumpy water may cause increased back pressure and exacerbate leaks, whereas there may not be the same back pressure when sewage is being pumped to the storage tank.

Barry
  Re: Toilet Leak (ALAN FORD)
Posted: 9:37:45 pm on 10/9/2011 Modified: Never
 
I think we have arrived at the same conclusion, but your back-pressure is from the overboard discharge, mine from the flushing water inlet. Whichever it is, either the valve is not working correctly, or those hose clamps (and hoses?) are past their use-by date. The check I did (see my first input on this thread) cleared my through-hull valve, so clamps and hoses will  be attacked this winter. I should know if it works next Spring.

Alan of SMOKE 1984 Mk V 002

  Re: Toilet Leak (oasis)
Posted: 11:11:45 am on 10/10/2011 Modified: Never
 
I think you are right Alan - the cause is less important than the effect.  I just saw that Jabsco has a twist and lock feature - extra insurance to make sure nothing backs up out of the bowl.  My one "flood" is enough.  I think new improved model is in store for next season!  Barry
  Re: Toilet Leak (Kilroy)
Posted: 11:33:21 pm on 10/10/2011 Modified: Never
 
I have that twist lock handle, and in year two it leaks into the bowl. I understand there are is a gasket that still needs to be replaced.
Tim ,Windsor On.
"Oui R One"
C&C 27 MK III  511
  Re: Toilet Leak (oasis)
Posted: 10:33:47 am on 10/11/2011 Modified: Never
 
Well, that has got to be disappointing.  Hope you didn't get an oveerflow like I did.  Not fun.  Do you think it was just a simple failure, or a design issue?

Barry  Oasis, 1987 Mk V
  Re: Toilet Leak (Kilroy)
Posted: 12:25:22 pm on 10/14/2011 Modified: Never
 
I will not know till I tear it apart over the winter as to why it failed. And no I did not have a major overflow.
Tim ,Windsor On.
"Oui R One"
C&C 27 MK III  511
  Re: Toilet Leak (surfj24)
Posted: 11:50:16 pm on 11/27/2011 Modified: Never
 
Well, I've taken all of your suggestions and I've got a new toilet and replacing all the hoses.  That aughta take care of it, hey?

Joe Kiehm
the one that started this thread.  

THANKS EVERYONE!!!!!
  Re: Toilet Leak (ALAN FORD)
Posted: 10:18:37 am on 5/4/2012 Modified: Never
 
With head hung low I confess that I was utterly, totally WRONG in my analysis of the reason for a little water in the pan in front of the throne on SMOKE.
I had a really good look at several places where water might have travelled to the pan and discovered there was a small damp trace running down the forward, extreme outer starboard side of the bulkhead separating the head from the V berth.
That eliminated the head hoses or hose clamps as culprits. Removing some of the little plastic covers in the headliner below the baby stay chain plate showed that they were water stained. So I carefully removed that chain plate and cleaned the rectangular area on deck where it is bedded down, also cleaned the chain plate itself with a Dremel wire brush.  Then I applied sealant to the underside of the plate and reinstalled it. One word of caution. The four bolts that hold the chain plate to the bulkhead and backing plate are  a very tight fit, so it was necessary to really force the chain plate down, squeezing the sealant as thin as possible, then fairing the edges on deck.
I did a hose test and we have had plenty of rain in the last few days, and the pan is dry.

Alan of SMOKE 1984 Mk V 002

  Re: Toilet Leak (JWente)
Posted: 8:41:59 pm on 5/4/2012 Modified: Never
 
my baby-stay chain plate leaks every 4 or 5 years, and requires rebedding.  It is essential to do, or deck rock begins.
jim
  Re: Toilet Leak (surfj24)
Posted: 8:50:37 pm on 5/7/2012 Modified: Never
 
My issue turned out to be two things.  One was the toilet itself needed an overhaul because the backflow unit was failing.  And Second, after I bought a new toilet and started to replace all the hoses, I got to the holding tank and noticed a huge crack in it.  As I was working on getting the hoses off, I was wondering why it was moving and swaying.......well, it was sitting in 4 inches of blue water.  So, I repaired the crack with 3M5200 sealant/adhesive.  I just hope it holds during the pump out.  We'll find out.

Joe Kiehm
K.I.S.S.
C & C 27 Mark V
Glendale, WI
  Re: Toilet Leak (ALAN FORD)
Posted: 10:31:11 pm on 5/7/2012 Modified: Never
 
Joe, with your holding tank afloat in 4 inches of blue water ( anti-freeze?) and 'moving and swaying', had the hold-down straps broken? That could be why the tank had a crack?
 

Alan of SMOKE 1984 Mk V 002

  Re: Toilet Leak (surfj24)
Posted: 2:56:32 pm on 5/8/2012 Modified: Never
 
No, what happened was when they installed the vent tube for the tank, they mounted it right on the edge of the tank and it was actually a screw so close to the edge that started the crack.  I don't know why they insisted on mounting it so close to the edge when they've got the whole rest of the top surface to do it?  Well, needless to say, we'll see if my repair holds up to a pump out.  The blue water was the waste treatment chemical.  So, not only was water draining into the bildge from that, but also from the comode itself on Port tack because the backflow preventer failed.  I now have a dry bilge. YEA!!!!