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question In search of a reliable sailboat. (Sailorone)
Posted: 8:18:37 pm on 12/22/2011 Modified: Never
 
Hi I am new to this forum and I joined because I am in the market for a sailboat, very possibly a C&C 27. I am interested in what any of you have to say regarding the reliability of a boat that is close to 40 years old, which is the age of what I can afford. I have looked at some, the markII in particular and I think it would be a wonderful boat for my wife and I to cruise in. But I do have my misgivings about a engine that is nearly 40. Any light you might shed on this topic would be great. Thank you.  Mike
Ottawa, ON
  Re: In search of a reliable sailboat. (clanning)
Posted: 10:29:18 am on 12/23/2011 Modified: Never
 
Mike,
Many others will chime in here I'm sure, but there are 40+ of the Mk 1-2-3-4 (i.e., 1971 to 1982 vintage) sailing here, many with the Atomic 4 gas engine engine.  The key to finding something that you will be happy with long-term is condition.  You can bring a really cheap boat in poor condition back from the dead, but it costs a lot of time and money.  Far easier to pay a little more for a boat in good shape -- then you can concentrate on maintenance.  Some boats have been repowered, or even had their A4s rebuilt.  The condition of the engine needs to factor into your overall budget, but in general its no reason to shy away from the boat.  It's still well supported by people like Moyer Marine.

In the end there is a large community of 27 sailors, and sailors in general, at BYC and NSC who can assist you on an everyday level as well.

Merry Christmas, and good luck with your boat hunting!
Chuck Lanning
NSC, Ottawa
  Re: In search of a reliable sailboat. (Sailorone)
Posted: 7:16:27 pm on 12/23/2011 Modified: Never
 
That is very encouraging. Thank you for the feedback. My search will continue.Mike
Ottawa, ON
  Re: In search of a reliable sailboat. (ALAN FORD)
Posted: 7:08:30 pm on 12/24/2011 Modified: Never
 
Mike, now that you have found this amazing site you should look at the BLACK ARTS section and then click on the BUYING a CúC 27 section. It is so full of great ideas that a careful reading will be well worth your time. And being in the Ottawa area means you have all those present owners who will guide you in finding your 2011. (late) Christmas gift.......
Merry Christmas to you.

Alan of SMOKE 1984 Mk V 002

  Re: In search of a reliable sailboat. (Sailorone)
Posted: 3:32:48 pm on 12/28/2011 Modified: Never
 
Hi Allan, Sorry for not getting back to you sooner but I had to suspend my search for a boat for a least a few days over xmas.
I have read the Black Arts and indeed there are many interesting topics. As a carpenter by trade I will certainly shine up any boat I purchase to make it my own and as pretty as possible.
Would you or anyone else have any advice of the pitfalls of searching for a boat in mid winter? I am looking across the border as well and wonder if there is someone local who would be able to transport a boat from NY state? Any idea of cost? Are there any boats available locally? Thank you for your reply and Happy New Year.Mike
Ottawa, ON
  Re: In search of a reliable sailboat. (ALAN FORD)
Posted: 11:33:55 pm on 12/29/2011 Modified: 11:43:32 pm on 12/29/2011
 
Mike, if you are including some boats that are now in the U.S. you will find that they are dramatically  lower in asking price. Some owners have a choice of keeping their homes or their boats, others have simply lost interest.  If you do buy there then some additional expenses come in to the picture. The U..S./Can$ exchange rate. The cost of transporting them to your address. The need and cost of any border documentation. The cost of a survey in the U.S. The cost and time involved in you heading South to look the boat over. The possibility of arranging a test sail prior to agreeing on a price, and the cost of lifting the boat out of the water to have a full hull survey. Conversely, if the boat is in a field (and many of them are like that) then you would also need to get it to water, have it launched for a test sail and engine check, then out of the water again.
I'm not trying to put you off a U.S. boat purchase, but it is not as easy and certain as finding a more local boat and those initial dollar savings can evaporate  fast.
As to the pitfalls of a winter boat hunt in your or our area, you would be unable to do a test sail, properly test the engine, see if the instruments work at all ( speed, depth, wind etc), know if the through-hull fittings work or are an instant access for torrents of water, do those cracks in the deck leak or are they cosmetic........are the 15 assorted sails that come with the boat better used as painter's tarps, and on and on and on............
There are so many considerations to ponder, not the least of which is to know if the boat has spent her life in fresh water or ashore, or in salt water.
Other owners of C&C 27's have far more knowledge than I, and hopefully will give you their more useful thoughts.
Finally, yes, there are some specialized boat transport trucking companies well able to take a boat to or from any place you can name!.
Good luck and all the best in 2012

Alan of SMOKE 1984 Mk V 002

  Re: In search of a reliable sailboat. (clanning)
Posted: 10:30:12 am on 12/30/2011 Modified: Never
 
Mike,
There are a few people in Ottawa capable of transporting boats like a 27.  David Bratt in Kingston was moving boats here, and Jay Morden (asst Manager at NSC) and Doug Patterson (service provider, works out of NSC) were transporting boats as well.

Hugh Morrin brought a nice late Mk III to NSC from Michigan around 7 years ago.  There are plenty coming home these days.

Allan is correct in his assessment of being able to view a boat in winter.  From what I've seen, you probably want to take your time and check out fresh water areas for bargains.  They are out there, but if you don't know what you're getting into, they may not be bargains after all.

A little fibreglass work is not necessarily a big deal, but may look like it.  A little corrosion on every turnbuckle may not look bad but could be expensive!  Is it a tune-up, or a new cylinder head?

On the other hand, you may want a good boat that you can sail right away without spending a summer getting her ready to sail.

Besides, the research and quest is usually an enjoyable part of the hunt.

In the end, if you do buy a US boat, get the pre-purchase survey (you will need one anyhow for insurance purposes) and engage a customs broker to sort the paperwork for you.

Chuck Lanning
NSC, Ottawa
  Re: In search of a reliable sailboat. (ALAN FORD)
Posted: 11:58:40 am on 12/30/2011 Modified: Never
 
Chuck has given you some truckers who haul boats, to which you might add Andrews Trucking, a full time specialist in boat transport....I used them for bringing SMOKE from Midland to Bronte and it was worry-free and painless.
www.andrewstrucking.com

Alan of SMOKE 1984 Mk V 002

  Re: In search of a reliable sailboat. (Sailorone)
Posted: 3:54:59 pm on 12/30/2011 Modified: Never
 
Thank you for all the advice. We are going to see one in NY state which appears in very good shape in the ad compared to others I have seen. While I would prefer to look at something closer, and I have been to Toronto, part of the fun is, as you say, in the search. I do have to make inquiries regarding cost of hauling as I try to remain within my budget. My wife has not been aboard a C&C yet, so this way she can get a feel for the size and layout. Truly, I wish spring started on Jan. 2. But I shall try to keep my wits about me and make a sound purchase in the end. Best of 2012 to you, in the hopes that I can join your ranks as a new owner in the coming year.


Mike
Ottawa, ON

  Re: In search of a reliable sailboat. (malurd)
Posted: 9:08:52 pm on 12/31/2011 Modified: Never
 
Hi Mike,

I looked for the most part of last summer and found a really nice C&C 27 Mk I (hull 211)in Cleveland, Ohio. We bought it from the owner that had it since 1974. It came with everything the owner had collected over the years for the boat including a nice inventory of sails (great bonus).  We had it surveyed, bought it in the fall and are spending the winter cleaning teak, making new cushions and repairing other small things.  After a summer of searching for a "reliable sailboat" and compared to other similar boats of this age, the C&C is my pick. We are really happy with our purchase and looking forward to sailing her on Lake Erie next year.  Be sure to have a compression test done on the Atomic 4 as a minimum (ours checked out at 93-95 PSI for each cylinder).  Better yet, have a trusted mechanic inspect the engine.  And of course, have a survey done when your close.  Have fun!

Cheers,
Rick

Rick Ulam
Presque Isle, PA
1972 Mk I

  Re: In search of a reliable sailboat. (Sailorone)
Posted: 12:56:07 pm on 1/1/2012 Modified: Never
 
More good advice. Thank you.


Mike
Ottawa, ON

  Re: In search of a reliable sailboat. (captswp)
Posted: 9:48:09 pm on 1/10/2012 Modified: Never
 
Hi Mike

I might have your new boat!  I have a 27 MK 2 I'd like to sell.  I bought her in the fall of 2001.  At some point or another I have touched every bolt, screw, nut and clevis pin on her.  I re-powered her with a Nanni Diesel. Replaced all the seacocks, Rebuilt the  electrial system, added an inverter, rebuilt the head system, re-cored / made solid portions of the deck, new hand rails, bow roller,  replaced most of the standing rigging, replaced both Main and Genoa, Replaced the windows...... and more...  

I am not getting out of sailing.  I have taken over the family C&C 35 and would like to find a good  home for the 27

Contact Steve @ Captswp501@aol.com  

Happy Sailing!  

Stephen W. Purdy
sv Nette 27-2
Casco Bay, Maine

  Re: In search of a reliable sailboat. (fordfork)
Posted: 5:02:27 pm on 1/11/2012 Modified: Never
 
Mike0
I have a 1985 mark 5 with a swallow keel. It has a 205 15 hp electric start outboard.Boat is located in Oyster bay NY. Sail are in good condition with roller furn jib. Sail were clean and inspected by Doyle sails end of season Radio death and knot, all equipment goes  $16.000 Ken 516-538-3264
  Re: In search of a reliable sailboat. (MReed)
Posted: 4:32:39 pm on 1/12/2012 Modified: Never
 
Mike,

I suggest looking for a MKIII if possible as the boat is closer to 28' and has the longer cockpit.  I own a 1979 which I purchased last year and they are a wonderful boat at a great price.  The MKIII has the best of all the MK's designed into it in my opinion.  I noticed today there is a 1979 for sale in Toronto on KIJIJI for $9,999 with a diesel engine & wheel.  Might be worth checking out.

Happy hunting,
Mark Reed
Night Music, C&C 27 Mk III #785
BSBC
Burlington, ON

  Re: In search of a reliable sailboat. (Sailorone)
Posted: 4:42:53 pm on 1/12/2012 Modified: Never
 
Thanks for the heads up. we are at the boat show this wkd. Might be able to arrange a showing.


Mike
Ottawa, ON

  Re: In search of a reliable sailboat. (Kilroy)
Posted: 5:41:04 pm on 1/12/2012 Modified: Never
 
Hi Mike I've been reading this thread. Now that other people have made offers to you, I now through my hat(boat) into the ring. I am considering selling my 1975 Mark III. I also will be at the boat show, if you would like to talk.
Tim ,Windsor On.
"Oui R One"
C&C 27 MK III  511
  Re: In search of a reliable sailboat. (Sailorone)
Posted: 9:46:00 pm on 1/12/2012 Modified: Never
 
Hi Yes I ceertainly would like to talk with you. Can you send photos and more details? Where is the boat located?


Mike
Ottawa, ON

  Re: In search of a reliable sailboat. (Kilroy)
Posted: 9:51:39 pm on 1/12/2012 Modified: 10:39:20 pm on 1/12/2012
 
Send info so we can contact each other. I will have pics with me in Toronto     zap AT cogeco DOT ca

Tim ,Windsor On.
"Oui R One"
C&C 27 MK III  511
  Re: In search of a reliable sailboat. (CharlesM)
Posted: 10:17:41 am on 1/13/2012 Modified: Never
 
I am at Britannia here in Ottawa and have a MkII.  Looking for a bigger boat.  I am the second owner (last 4 years)our boat has been at Britannia since 1972.

I believe these boats are extremely well-built and recommend you do your homework to ensure you get what you want.  The Atomic-4 is a strong motor for which there are ample parts, lots of online support as well as available mechanics who can trouble shoot any problem you may run into.  I haven't needed that but have seen Mobile Mechanic several times at our club working on other boats.

My two cents: don't buy a boat has had alot of modifications.  Copies of old surveys can show what issues have had to be addressed over the years. I have the original bill of sale for mine and it tells me what came with the boat as well as the original price which was around $19k including delivery..  While these boats are reliable, they require effort to restore lustre to the hull and topsides each year.

My previous boat was a 1970 tanzer 22.  I had a similar good experience with that.  Age isn't a problem. It comes down to what the owner(s) have done to keep it in a good state of repair.
  Re: In search of a reliable sailboat. (Sailorone)
Posted: 11:27:45 am on 1/16/2012 Modified: Never
 
Hi Charles, you mention you are in Ottawa and might have a  boat for sale?


Mike
Ottawa, ON

  Re: In search of a reliable sailboat. (Sailorone)
Posted: 2:01:33 pm on 1/16/2012 Modified: Never
 
I did manage to visit this one on Sunday. What I could see looks good however, the current owner provided me with a copy of the most recent survey(2006) which indicated high moisture readings in several areas of the deck. I am unsure if these were addressed but will ask. By all accts this is a normal occurrence in a boat of this age. The question remains how extensive is the decay? To me it wouldn't be a deal breaker if it is minor. Only a new survey will determine that.

Another question for all you MK III owners: how loud is the noise from a Yanmar YSM12? I was told it was called the thumper. How reliable is this engine?


Mike
Ottawa, ON

  Re: In search of a reliable sailboat. (Hugh Morrin)
Posted: 8:42:38 pm on 3/8/2013 Modified: Never
 
Hi Mike,

Did you find a boat?

Hugh

Hugh Morrin
Blue Zulu
C&C 27 Mk III, #894
Nepean Sailing Club
www.nsc.ca/cc27

  Re: In search of a reliable sailboat. (Sailorone)
Posted: 3:13:12 pm on 3/10/2013 Modified: Never
 
Hi Hugh,
Yes we did find a boat, thank you for asking. We purchased Blue Star last March in the St Catharines area, had her moved up to Ottawa and was moored all summer at NSC. We had looked at numerous boats between Kingston and Niagara, and happened upon a broker who located several boats for us to look at. Blue Star was really in great shape apart from the cockpit sole which I have since replaced. We had great fun, some nerve racking, as we learned how to navigate and sail such a large boat, never having done do before. We will likely be in the same mooing as last summer (C-61) and would be happy to meet you. I will likely have questions as I try to look after the engine and get to know the boat overall. The motor seems to be running well but I wonder if you might suggest a local medchanic, familiar with the atomic 4, who could perhaps give it a once over just to make certain she is in top shape? I do find it runs fast at slow speed. Thanks again for asking and perhaps we will see you on launch day.


Mike
Ottawa, ON

  Re: In search of a reliable sailboat. (clanning)
Posted: 8:45:23 pm on 3/11/2013 Modified: Never
 
Hello Mike,

You are my neighbour!  (I am in C-56.)  Welcome!

Peter the Mobile Mechanic is very busy at NSC and has a good reputation (although I have never had him do work for me).  If you have trouble finding his number, call Julie or Gene in the office and they can help you reach him.

Cheers
Chuck Lanning
NSC, Ottawa