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Current Replies for Boat weight
 
  Boat weight (ALAN FORD)
Posted: 10:36:40 pm on 10/3/2012 Modified: 11:39:40 pm on 10/3/2012
 
Four years ago there was a thread about the weight of our boats. The initial request was  to decide what size of truck (pick-up) was needed to safely tow a 27.

My PHRF certificate says a Mk V weighs 5800 lbs. C&C's brochure says  less.  The Constitution and Rules says 5000.

Knowing that we load them up with mountains of assorted 'stuff', resulting in a large variance from boat to boat, has anyone actually weighed their 27? Even better, has anyone weighed their boat when really empty?

Is there a lifting device in the GTA which has a weighing module, allowing someone to get the real gross weight of their boat, "as sailed"

In summary we have these interesting numbers for a MkV .

C&C Class Association Constitution and Rules say a MkV displacement is  5000 lbs
C&C original brochure says  4720 lbs
The Class Web site, under 'Sea Change', says   4420 lbs
My PHRF certificate says  5800 lbs.

Confusing isn't it ?!?!
  Re: Boat weight (Steve Reid)
Posted: 8:25:06 pm on 10/4/2012 Modified: Never
 
Well Alan, since you asked, this past weekend we weighed Still Knot Working and Distant Thunder (hull numbers 75 & 69 respectively), using the requirements for IRC the boats were empty, no gear, no sails, no rigging no safety equipment. Prior to the weigh in we had found an old MORC certificate for Distant Thunder and it listed the weight as 5900 lbs.
Still Knot Working weighed in at a mature weight of 6,111 lbs, her younger sister Distant Thunder came in a little lighter, I'll leave it to Jim to disclose the exact weight because I didn't get to read the scale when DT was hanging on it.

Steve Reid
  Re: Boat weight (diva27)
Posted: 9:38:21 pm on 10/4/2012 Modified: Never
 
Interesting issue. I work as a foreman's assistant for launch and haul at our sailing club, and in the spring I was given the task of double-checking the weights given by owners on their forms and what the crane operator was actually detecting. We have a Mark V in the club and I recall him putting something around 4000 pounds on the form. If my memory isn't failing me, I think the crane operator said the lift weight was actually well in excess of 6000 pounds. I don't know how much of that was attributable to gear on board. But if you're trying to figure out towing capability, it would be best to err on the side of caution.  Doug Hunter
Diva
C&C 27 Mk1
Midland Bay Sailing Club
www.douglashunter.ca
  Re: Boat weight (ALAN FORD)
Posted: 9:44:59 pm on 10/4/2012 Modified: Never
 
Thanks Steve, that is just what I wanted. I have read the USSailing guide for what may, and what may not, be on board when weighing. Did you have your fuel tank full and get an allowance?  
Where was the single point crane with a weight module that you and Jim used please?
Have you guessed what  SKW weighs when racing? How much 'stuff' is over and above your 6111 lbs? I know.....too much!

Alan of SMOKE 1984 Mk V 002

  Re: Boat weight (Steve Reid)
Posted: 12:59:36 pm on 10/4/2012 Modified: Never
 
Alan:
John Crawley has a certified load cell, that was used with slings and spreader bars to lift the boats, the weight of the slings and spreaders was recorded before and after each lift and that was deducted from the lift weight of the boats.
The weighing was done at CC Boat Works in the port area of Toronto Harbour, it was all part of getting an IRC Measurement Certificate for my boat (don't know if Jim is also going to get one) there were 7 boats in total weighed, mine and Jims were the only 27's.
IRC requires the boats to be empty, tanks dry (if the fuel tank has any in it, it must be full and the capacity must be known so the weight of fuel can be deducted)all sails, sheets etc. must be off the boat, all safety gear and anchors must be removed including fire extinguishers. All accomodation materials that would be on board while racing are to be on the boat. Bilge must be dry.
When I removed all the gear the day before and moved it to my car I would estimate that the total weight including sails would be around 150 - 200 lbs.
I have long suspected that the Mark V's weighed a lot more that people thought or than what C&C claimed in the brochures. now I know.
It would be interesting to know how much the other versions of the 27 weigh.

Steve
  Re: Boat weight (ALAN FORD)
Posted: 6:57:43 pm on 10/4/2012 Modified: Never
 
Since emptying the fuel tank is probably a bad idea, what capacity did you use for SKW's fuel tank when full? The brochure says 11 U.S. gallons, which is 41.6 litres., but I am unable to find a more 'official' number. Perhaps there are variations from boat to boat? I will hunt in my paperwork, which has many of the original specs for such things.
Several boats at BHYC have IRC certificates and sometimes race under that rating system,  Bronte Rocks for instance. Out of curiosity, why are you going that way please? It is something that may be of real interest to other 27-ers.
Thanks

Alan of SMOKE 1984 Mk V 002

  Re: Boat weight (Steve Reid)
Posted: 4:11:44 pm on 10/5/2012 Modified: Never
 
Alan:
I didn't have to empty the tank on SKW it was almost empty (less than 5 litres) and the measurer agreed that it was insignificant. At any rate the tank on the Mark V is stated at 45.4 litres which is 11.98 US Gallons. Distant Thunder was weighed with her tank full and that's the volume that was used to calculate the weight of fuel.
As to your question of why IRC? My reasons were twofold. First I have for a number of years been curious about the actual weight of the boat and this was one way to do that. Secondly the turnout in PHRF at the regattas has been getting less and less every year and the numbers in IRC have been increasing, so it became clear to me that if I want to keep racing I need an IRC Certificate.
Time will tell whether IRC or PHRF is the more equitable rating system.

Steve
  Re: Boat weight (Brent)
Posted: 7:32:51 pm on 10/25/2012 Modified: Never
 
Hi Alan
Last year our club installed a scale on the crane to discourage overweight boats from hooking onto it. This fall when I hauled my diesel powered MkV I noted the weight to be 5550 lbs. I had removed all of the sails prior to the lift but all other gear was still below. Although I race the boat primarily I still have the odds and ends for light weight cruising. I think I carry about 200 lbs. of sails and 50 lbs. of empty beer cans so the PHRF certificate is darned close!
Our crane is rated to 11000 lbs and when my friend pulled his 33 Mk2 he stripped it down to nearly new conditions, dumped the spars etc and tapped out at about 10,970 lbs.!

Brent Driedger
C&C 27 MkV #15
s/v Wild Rover
Lake Winnipeg
  Re: Boat weight (ALAN FORD)
Posted: 3:01:05 pm on 10/26/2012 Modified: 3:05:14 pm on 10/26/2012
 
Brent, those numbers are perplexing. We have Wild Rover at 5550 lbs, and SKW at 6111 lbs,  We know that Steve probably removed more from his boat than you did from yours, as he was obtaining an official weight for rating purposes, and thus had to follow the IRC directives.  His cushions were on board, as required, but not much else. If the scales are correct it means that SKW is 10% heavier than Wild Rover, which an amazing variance between two supposedly identical boats.
Any comments from the Mk I to IV owners please? Anyone else had their boat weighed recently?

Alan of SMOKE 1984 Mk V 002

  Re: Boat weight (Steve Reid)
Posted: 7:32:32 pm on 10/26/2012 Modified: Never
 
Brent:
was your boat weighed with the mast stepped or was the mast off the boat?
Alan & Brent one of the reasons that official weighings are done with "certified" load cells is that unlike a built in weigh measuring device on a crane a certified load cell has been checked and calibrated to give a true weight through it's entire weight measuring range. At our club we use a mobile crane at haulout, I've asked the operator over several haul outs what he was registering for the weight of my boat and the range has been anywhere from 5325 to 5780 lbs. (without mast, boom, running rigging etc. on the boat).
So we can easily see that that's not accurate, it varies from crane to crane.
As far as the variance from hull to hull on the build of a mid 80's production boat it's not difficult to imagine a wide range of weights. To their credit C&C tried to make the Mark V's consistant, they were the first boats C&C built where they precut all of the glass fiber and allocated a set amount of resin per boat. that said where they possibly went off astray was that when the liners for deck and hull were inserted they were reported to have shoveled in a lot of bonding putty, referred to as "cow pies" and that stuff was not controlled, some boats got a lot some got less.
I'm going to try, at our haul out (tomorrow) to get the weights on some of the other Mark V's and some of the III's at EYC and compare to what the crane comes up with for SKW. Using SKW & Distant Thunder's official weights and approximating for the lack of mast, boom & rigging we might be able to get closer to an understanding of boat weights.

Steve Reid
Still K not Working MkV #75
  Re: Boat weight (Brent)
Posted: 10:45:06 pm on 10/26/2012 Modified: Never
 
Our configuration is this. The crane is a jib arm type mounted to a vertical single post that lifts a boat from its trailer with an electric chain fall hoist. The hook on the bottom of the hoist is connected to a scale device that in turn has a large I- beam connected to it. Hooks on either end of the beam attach to large loading straps and the whole mess is rated for 11k.  Once the straps are about the hull and ready to lift, you zero out the scale and proceed to lift.
All my spars were aboard and the mast was down and laying across the pulpit and stern rail. All tanks are empty, I never carry water in the fresh tank.. Diesel tank was half empty , the twin batteries were in place and all ground tackle was aboard. I can't explain the weight difference.
Maybes hull was built on Friday and they forgot a few layers of glass!

Brent
  Re: Boat weight (Steve Reid)
Posted: 9:40:28 pm on 10/27/2012 Modified: Never
 
Brent:
The difference is likely, as i stated in my previous post, a weight measuring device and a "Certified Load Cell" the former gives you a relative weight the latter gives you an accurate weight.
To give you an example, when Still Knot Working was weighed 3 weeks ago for IRC, using a certified load cell she weighed 6110 lbs. Today at haul out at EYC the crane registered 6260 lbs and that was without the mast, boom or spinnaker pole. Now the interesting tid bit, I also managed to get the crane weight for Bluenote II a Mark III. Now it's not fair to tell a ladies weight but it was more that 100 lbs but less than 250 lbs heavier than SKW.