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Dear C&C 27 Owner,
Registration is now open for the Toronto NOOD Regatta, hosted by the Royal Canadian Yacht Club and the National Club, June 22, 23 and 24.
You can register on-line by going to www.sailingworld.com, clicking on the NOOD Regattas header and then following the prompts. There is a penalty for late registration (June 4th and later) so it pays to register early!! If you don't want to register on-line, please contact me directly and I will be happy to facilitate the paperwork. We hope to see the largest fleet of C&C 27's yet come out for this internationally sanctioned event.
For members of the C&C 27 Class Association, this event will constitute our North American Championships for the year. You can't win if you don't race! Look forward to seeing you there.
Kathleen Timmis
Kat's-Paw I
RCYC
C&C 27 Class Co-ordinator for Toronto NOOD Regatta
Treasurer, C&C 27 Class Association
416-366-5100
416-785-1605
Greetings:
You are receiving this message because you registered on the C&C 27 Association Web site. For more information on our e-mail policies, see below.
Now that's out of the way, the heart of the matter:
We'd like you to join the C&C 27 Association, if you haven't already signed up for this year.
As a C&C 27 owner, you already know you're sailing one of the best production boats ever built. As a registered contributor to our Web site's Forum, you already know
- that the 27 Association's Web site tells you everything you need to know about the history and development of the C&C 27;
- that you have instant access to the site's detailed information on major setup and maintenance issues, along with sources for the supplies you need to make a confident, long-lasting fix for whatever ails your boat; and
- that whenever you need more, a network of interested 27 sailors will give you the benefit of their experience and unbiased advice on our lively Forum -- within days if not hours.
You may not know, though, that we need your help to keep it going. All of the Association's work is done by volunteers, 27 owners like you, planning, organizing, working on the Web site and so on. Hosting a Web site, though, is not free, and hosting a photo-rich site like ours is more expensive than hosting a simple text site.
Why not join the sailors from Lake Michigan to Florida who support our site and our work to maintain interest in the C&C 27 (and support its value). For just $25 Canadian or $20 US (check or money order), you'll receive:
- a year's membership in the 27 Association;
- a nylon class flag you'll be proud to fly (new members only);
- a laminated membership card.
Support the 27! Support the Association!
Join us today! Please use <a href="http://www.cc27association.com/member.html" target-"blank">the forms</a> on this page.
Sincerely,
Larry Bayer,
President
C&C 27 Association
A non-profit volunteer association of C&C 27 owners
Association e-mail policies
We will never give your e-mail or other information to anyone else. Period.
We will send you an e-mail every spring asking you to join the Association. If this vexes you, just remember that membership fees are the Association's only source of revenue. If people like you don't join and support the Association, there will be no site.
If you feel up to it, photos and a description of the process might make a good addition to Black Arts.
- Admin
Use the search function of the forum to search for 'rigging' or 'shroud tension'. Setup has been discussed quite a bit.
If it is the length/thickness of shrouds/backstay/forestay that you are looking for you may be better off measuring yourself as a modified Mark I rig could differ from th Mark II rig, modifications possibly being in more than one spec. That said, perhaps someone has an owners manual for the Mark II with the sought after info.
Gord.
Any Mk Vers out there know anyone who has been shooting photos during club or interclub races? LORC? Youngstown?
On 2/20/07, tonybessinger@worldpub.net (Tony Bessinger) said
>I'm in the process of writing a story about good PHRF buys, and plan
>on including the C&C 27 Mk. V on the list. Would you be able to help me
>contact some owners of Mark V's who race their boats in PHRF fleets?
>
>I'm also looking for some good, high-resolution images of Mk. Vs
>sailing and racing, so if you know of anyone who might have some, >please let me know.
>Thanks for the help,
>Tony
>
>Tony Bessinger, Associate Editor
>Sailing World Magazine
>55 Hammarlund Way
>Middletown, RI 02842
>Office: 401-845-5107
>Mobile: 401-965-7257
>Fax: 401-845-5180
>Skype: tbessinger
>Tony.bessinger@sailingworld.com
>Www.sailingworld.com
>
Sailing World's editor is looking for people who race their Mk V's in mixed fleets. See his post in "What to look for - Mark V?" Your 15 min of fame starts here.
- Admin
Recently, I received the following from the admin of <www.paceship.org>. I thought I'd share this and my answer with the Forum in the hopes of eliciting other worthwhile information, or at least stirring up a little trouble to brighten a winter day.
>We had a person post on our forum regarding C&C deck delamination.
>This individual noted that
>
>"It is a well-know and accepted fact that C&C 27's are MORE prone to
>deck delamination than other boats of similar construction. To a
>lesser extent, C&C 24's and 25's are, also subject to this problem"
>
>Our experience is as we noted:
>
>"I have never heard that C&C has consistent "deck problems"....In
>fact, my experience suggests that ALL fiberglass boats that utilize
>balsa or ply cores can have both problems particularly in the vintage
>of these boats.
>
>We are wondering if you can concur or reject with this individuals
>assertion about C&C deck problems.
>
>We like to give boats a fair hearing on the forum and this seemed
>juxtapose to our experience!
My answer was as follows.
"My condolences - we get assertions like this on our site from time to time, too.
"This purported fact may be "well known and accepted" by this person and the people with whom he props up a bar, but it's a surprise to me.
"Do we have a reasonable sample of numbers for comparison? Doesn't appear so. Do we have any numbers for comparison - even if all they demonstrate is a local phenomenon? Again, apparently not - we are lost in the wonderful world of personal prejudice and unsupported hearsay.
"In that spirit, let's wander into speculation ourselves.
"First, why would C&C's be different?
"Was it the materials? Everyone used approximately the same types of woven glass and polyester resin then. C&C used Baltek balsa, supposedly the most consistent in quality.
"Was it the people? C&C in Niagara-On-The-Lake had a very stable workforce, partly because it was a good place to work, partly because the region was then losing jobs at a dismaying pace. Moreover, one of the perks of a C&C job was the opportunity to buy a boat at cost, and a lot of employees did so (Niagara-On-The-Lake Sailing Club was full of people who made sacrifices to buy a boat on this plan, hardly the behaviour of people who knew the boats to be slapped together). Build quality from Oakville was superb; the Rhode Island plant was uneven by C&C standards, but that plant - whose principal products were Landfalls of 40 ft and up - didn't stay open very long, so there aren't a lot of boats out there.
"Was it the design? Actually, this is a possible. C&C adopted balsa core because it helped make the boats lighter, hence more fun to sail. The glass skins were deliberately kept light to maximize this quality. Once delamination has started in earnest, a light skin might progress more quickly than a thicker one because it will flex more. This does not mean that a C&C is initially more prone than any other cored boat, as you quite reasonably respond.
"Is it the owners? Also a possible. Looking around my own club and others, you can see a clear link between people who can sail well, and who are therefore more likely to understand and appreciate the difference between a sweet-sailing boat and a tub, and their ownership of a well designed and built boat. Good boats get better maintenance than tubs because they are more fun, hence more likely to be enjoyed and valued. C&C's are fun to sail, hence their owners look after them, hence you are more likely to hear about someone either doing the work or having it done on a C&C than your neighbour's Garbagebarge 28.
"Finally, is it the numbers? A thumping 984 C&C 27's were built, just part of the astonishing flow that made C&C the world's leader in the 70s and 80's. If a lot were built, you're likely to see more of them with problems than boats of which 10 were built. If your correspondent has trouble with this concept, I recommend Innumeracy: Mathematical Illiteracy and Its Consequences by John Allen Paulos (available from Amazon - lots of fun as well as informative).
"So in sum (and, should you publish this, to help this person figure out what I've actually said):
"- Materials - no evidence.
"- People (builders) - most evidence argues against.
"- Design - pure conjecture, but all personal experience, boats and otherwise says that performance carries its costs; the intelligent owner understands and accepts those costs or he/she finds something more appropriate to his or her tastes.
"- Owners - pure conjecture, but most of the C&C owners I know have done some deck work or have pulled deck fittings to epoxy the holes and re-bed the hardware. None of them appear to resent having to do it. (Full disclosure: I have my deck organizers off this winter to epoxy the holes and will finish re-bedding them in the spring. It's just part of the cost of ownership.)
"Numbers - this could be the crux of the issue, so your correspondent should try to read the suggested book.
"So, to wrap this up charitably, your correspondent has seen a local spike in C&C repairs and has mistaken it for a global phenomenon. To be somewhat less charitable, he has mistaken the low-maintenance quality of fibreglass to be a promise of no maintenance and has failed to understand that some people actually look after their boats. To be utterly rude, your correspondent has a bad case of envy directed at something he may not be equipped to understand or afford.
"Hope this answers your question."
David Weatherston
Thank you, Clare, for closing the thread.
Admin.
Keeping the crew out of the cockpit is good advice, but be sure to keep them behind the mast too. The boat likes about 15-20 degrees of heel in a good wind, but the Mark III likes lighter air (around 7/8 knots) and smooth water. Head sail size depends largely on materials, wind, and crew weight. We use our #1 to about 12 knots, the #2 to 20-ish, and the #3 until you think it's time to go home. That's when the blade comes out. Reefing is a matter of opinion. For example, some like to reef and keep a #1 up while others keep a full main and go to a #2 headsail. Keep in mind that the boat is primarily genoa driven and points by the main (mainly : ), so take that into your calculations depending on where you want to go and how fast.
As Dave says, there's lots of info through the forum so make sure you explore for a plethora of conflicting opinions, one of which may be right for you ; )
Good luck and enjoy your season when it gets there.
Gord.
Bob,
I think I speak for many in returning thanks to you for your contributions to Black Arts and the Forum. And don't think any sensible sailor will think ill of you for the migration to the "Dark Side". As sailors, we have far more in common with a knowledgeable and intellligent power vessel operator than we do with the cottage associations, the municipalities and the developers who try to make the water their private preserve.
Happy cruising, no matter what your motive power may be.
- Admin
>Reluctantly, after some fifty years of sailing a wide variety of boats, I have gone over to the dark side of power boats. Seems that with the onset of old age,pulling sheets and grinding winches becomes onerous. Starting twin engines is much easier.
>My best wishes to all C&C 27 owners and in particular, all those who have contributed to this helpful forum.
>Bob Honsberger Burlington Ontario, Former owner of hull #322 "Budge"
Sorry - dropped the title line over the prices.
-Admin
The 27 Association has received an offer of a special pricing on sails for our boats from TackSails of Hudson, Quebec. The prices are attractive (the price of a main is about 75% of the fall price of a Canadian-made main), so we have decided to pass the offer on to the membership. TackSails will ship to Canadian and US members.
PLEASE NOTE:
1. This is not an endorsement by the Association, its executive or the site admin - it's information that we are passing on because we think it's worthy of your consideration. We have not seen the product and we have no opinions about the product. The decision to purchase is like the decision to embark on a race or cruise - whether you go ahead or not is entirely up to you.
2. TackSails has extended this offer to 27 Association paid-up members. Being registered on the Forum doesn't count. If you want to become an Association member so you can take advantage of the deal, this will be considered your 2007 membership.
Now to the offer from Bryan Bowser of TackSails:
"Greetings:
"The sails are made by Rolly Tasker in Thailand. I visited the loft this past
spring and was very impressed. The management is basically Australian, the labor is Thai and the materials (cloth) are mostly North American. They do however make their own rope and
injection mold some basic fittings on site. Tasker has been building sails
for over 40 years. What makes these sails great value is partly due to the
efficiency of the loft, but also the inexpensive Thai labour (even though they
are considered to be well paid there).
"The cross cut main and genoas are double stitched and built with
performance dacron (USA).
"The mains are quoted with one set of reef points, 6 sail numbers,
cunningham, C&C insignia, flostripe, leechline, sailbag and ties).
"The genoas are quoted with a window, telltales, bag, flostripe, and leech
line.
"The spinnaker is a 3/4 ounce tri-radial racing chute.
"Here's a list of fall special prices for C&C 27 Association Members. Prices are quoted in Canadian dollars. [Multiply by .85 to get an approximate US dollar price - Admin]
Model Genoa Overlap Main Radial Hd Spinnaker
C&C 27 Mark 1 1431.30 165% 1161.32 1623.81
C&C 27 Mark 2 1511.10 165% 1095.90 1717.68
C&C 27 Mark 3 1501.42 155% 1190.92 1811.54
C&C 27 Mark 4 1515.83 165% 1190.92 1723.24
C&C 27 Mark 5 1253.50 155% 1244.36 1501.11
"A deposit of 25% is required to place the order. Delivery can be in February, March, April or May (some people don't want to pay for their sails until just before the sailing season so they have a choice).
Best regards,
Bryan Bowser
TackSails"
This is from a MarK III perspective but the situation sounds the same, so...
The plug in the bottom of the rudder was probably put in by a previous owner to confront what seems to be a chronic problem in 27's - a wet rudder. We, and a number of other owners I know of, have a hole we drilled in the bottom of the rudder which we plug with silicon every spring and unplug in the fall to allow the rudder a chance to drain and dry. This is assuming you are in a climate where a 5-6 month haul-out is part of the routine. While repairing, sealing or replacing the rudder would be the ideal way to go this method has been working for us for the last 5 years. I know this doesn't necessarily help answer, but it may be useful to the curious.
While doing some maintenance, I inadvertently deleted a question and answer related to through-hulls. Normally, accidental deletions are easy to recover, but this one refuses to be repaired. Sorry questioner, sorry responder (but questioner, if you had registered and signed in, it would not have been necessary to submit a near-duplicate of the original post, which the Admin couldn't bear to leave cluttering up the board).
The most important aspect of the thread is a link to what seems a fairly authoritative article on grounding at http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/westadvisor/10001/-1/10001/groundingsystems.htm - Admin
Quick ways to tell: A mark V is close to 2 feet shorter than a mark III or IV, and the rudder is visible on the transom well above the waterline. Mark IV's are pretty rare. That said, still read the site pages on buying a boat. You'll thank yourself later.
You can check the bearing in the water - just dive under the boat and shake the prop shaft. If it feels at all loose in the p-bracket, the bearing is worn. Replacing it is a haulout job - not particularly difficult but demands a lot of rather tedious effort. It's helpful to have a special tool to put in the new one, but if you don't have it, you can make something just as effective for a few dollars.
>why this information was not changed in the mark 3 sail specifications for sailors ordering new sails? Thanks.
Because after we finished the new Constitution, I changed it, then forgot to upload it. It's now up, with an additional change pointing out that the official measurements are in the Constitution; the web page is just for information. My bad. You're welcome.
- Admin
Responsiveness has been off the pace lately (which is to say, either dead slow or nothing) on the Forum. The speed hit mainly affects us during Eastern Daylight Time business hours. If you're having difficulties, try connecting outside that period. We are in touch with our ISP and hope to have a remedy soon.
If you would like to assist with the trouble-shooting of the problem please leave a reply to this posting with the time of your attempt and the state of response or number of tries necessary if you find the response slow.
Thanks for you help.
Admin
The Executive of the Association gratefully acknowledges receipt of a most generous donation from our member, Michael Mathews of Houston, Texas. This gift has allowed us to purchase new software for our beloved forum which has eliminated those irritating ads! Thank you Michael!!
Larry Bayer, President
NOOD Regatta
The deadline for us to form a fleet for the Toronto NOOD Regatta is this coming Monday, June 12th. Anyone who intends to participate must register before then or there will not be a fleet to race in. Follow the link to register.
Kathleen Timmis
Membership Secretary
Assuming that your original through-plate is above a winch on the port side of the mast, our secondary halyard passes through a plate about 3-4 inches below and about 1.5 inches aftward of the first. I've not experienced any conflict in this setup, but we don't often try headsail changes and very seldom need the second.
Gord.
I've got Ken on the hook to tell Black Arts about his A4 rebuild, so who's going to tell us about a) why the original valves were replaced; b) why the decision spiralled about plastic, then settled on bronze; c) how the job progressed; and d) anything else that comes to mind. Pics of course are the heart and soul of Black Arts.
This of course is not to rule out efforts from both of you, blended into a smooth puree of information by your
- Admin
Just a reminder to Association members who are planning to register for the C&C Owners Regatta at National Yacht Club, Toronto, weekend of July 1-2 - There is an early registration discount.
Entry fee is $69.55 inclusive of GST if received before May 15.
It goes up to $85.60 after that and up to $101.65 after June 15.
Go to the Association website and link to Owner's Regatta site from there for info and registration form.
It was a great event last year so hope to see you there this year!
Kathy Timmis
Membership/Treasurer
C&C 27 Class Association
Kat's-Paw I
Could you be a bit more specific, please?
- Admin
It's not all here, but a lot of it is.
http://www.cc27association.com/pdf/mkv/RunningStanding.pdf