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- Admin
My experience with things that WILL NOT BUDGE, particularly after the sequence of persuasions you describe, is that there is a trick to them - they must go up a little bit before going down, down a little bit before going up, most likely because the litigation-fearing manufacturer has included some sort of "safety device" that will make half his customers run away to some country that does not understand the concept of safety. If the bracket moves at all (just not the direction you want), that should be your no. 1 suspicion.
Lift the motor (if it's up and you want it down) and watch carefully for anything that moves, even a tiny bit. That will be your "safety device" and your remaining task is to discern which direction to move it to release it.
- Admin
"Using the Forum (from http://www.cc27association.com/site/view.html)
We want the Forum to be a durable resource, which is to say that if you have an interesting question and someone out there has a thoughtful answer, we want them on the site so that others can read it, today and for as long as this site lasts. Therefore, Rule Number One (the one and only rule on the Forum) is:
You will not ask people to send answers to your e-mail address or phone number. That's no use to the other people who use and contribute to the site, and who might someday have need of that information, so we want the question and the answer in the Forum. Therefore e-mail addresses and numbers will be promptly deleted. The only time they are acceptable is when you're trying to buy or sell a boat or gear."
That said, if people want to send me photos of battery layouts, I will look at them and if they elucidate real problems, I will add them to Black Arts.
- Admin
<How does one attach photographs here?>
You don't. You can either read the bit about "Using photos in your posts" in <http://www.cc27association.com/site/view.html> or send them to the admin and hope that he finds them sufficiently entrancing to do something with them.
Off the cuff, I'd say that a photo of two batteries abaft the aft end of the engine, or one battery in front of the after accommodation bulkhead and one behind, or two batteries one on top of the other in the forward end of the engine compartment are comprehensively descriptive.
- Admin
The link for your stopmotion seems to have been lost. All I see is the static image at tinypic.
Your English is better than that of some of the nominally English-speaking contributors to this Forum. I expect you are also fluent in Italian (obviously) and German, with a bit of Dutch thrown in for good measure. There is no need to apologize. Welcome to the Forum.
- Admin
LOA 26'6"
LWL 23'
Beam 9'3"
Draft Std./Shoal 3'6"
Design displacement 2,075 lbs lead/antimony
Boom Vang, 2 Barient 18 Primary Winches two speed,
2 Barient 10 Secondary Winches. New boom sail cover.
SS Transom-mounted Swim Ladder, Speed/Depth/temp,
Bilge Pump – Manual new 2014, 30A Shore Power cable,
Magma Propane Grill, Marine Radio,
Danforth 13# Anchor w/100’ rode, Topping lift, New main sail 2013 Doyle
155% Genoa Roller Furling, USCG Required equipment
15Hp elect start Mercury outboard engine on a transom mount
Two burner gimballed stove with chopping block cover
Porta Potti Autohelm Garmin 152 gps location Oyster Bay NY in water
Contact Kenny mainsheet{at}optonline.net five one six five three eight three two six four
Please note that the seller is not a Forum member, so all responses should be directed straight to the seller's email or phone, not through the Forum. - Admin
Hi, I would like to purchase a C&C 27, preferably with diesel motor, a tiller and jib furler. So far I haven't had any luck finding one close by, but perhaps you have a member who would consider selling.
I'm in Vermont, US.
Julietrottier
[at]
yahoo.com
(Put the preceding on one line with the symbol for [at].)
Thanks much,
Julie
Please note that the seller is not a Forum member, so all responses should be directed straight to the seller's email, not through the Forum. - Admin
1981 C&C 27 Mk. III - Excellent example of this popular boat for sale. Built late in the Mk III production run (Hull #902), "Escape" boasts a Yanmar diesel inboard. Kept in great condition, this is a dry boat, with recently renewed upholstery and head, custom cockpit table, and equipped with an excellent racing sail inventory including main, 110, spinnaker, storm jib, blooper, and a UK tapedrive 150 genoa new in 2015. Freshwater sailed, lying in Ottawa, Canada. Asking $18,500. See http//tinyurl.com/escape902 for photos. Contact tigshafto at gmail dot com for complete specification sheet.
Please note that the seller is not a Forum member, so all responses should be directed straight to the seller's email or phone, not through the Forum. - Admin
Enough! You've both expressed your opinion, but this is not going to descend into a YouTube-style "you're a ..." "no, you're a ..." match. Remember, I can suspend an account with two clicks, but once that's done, it's work to enter a new account and I'm busy sailing. So back off.
- Admin
Duchess IV is looking for a new home. Hull #522, built in 1975. Duchess has been lovingly cared for, with many upgrades over the years. Sail inventory includes a furling #1 genoa, heavy #2 genoa, #3 genoa, 1.5 oz. spinnaker and full battened main. 7 winches. Equipped for cruising or racing. Dodger and cockpit awning. Universal Atomic 4 engine has been upgraded with electronic ignition and electric fuel pump. Numerous engine spares. Folding Martec propeller. Two anchors and rodes. Includes 2-piece rigid rowing/sailing dinghy. Folding steel cradle and winter tarp.
The interior features many custom touches, including teak and ash woodwork, LED lighting and re-upholstered cushions.
A fun and fast sailing vessel that is hailed as a classic family cruiser or club racer, this boat is fully equipped for racing or cruising. Ideally located in Lake Huron’s North Channel. Just launch and start your vacation.
Asking $13,000. Contact the seller for full inventory and additional information: andrjean(at)hurontel(dot)on(dot)ca.
Duchess IV
C&C 27 Mk III
Please note that the seller is not a Forum member, so all responses should be directed straight to the seller's email or phone, not through the Forum. - Admin
Hello All C&C 27 Sailors,
MARK YOUR CALENDARS:
RE: C&C 27 Ontario Championships--Nepean One Design (NOD) Regatta- June 18th-19th, 2016
The C&C 27 2016 Ontario Championships will again be run as part of the Nepean One Design (NOD) Regatta on the weekend of June 18-19, 2016. Hosted by the Nepean Sailing Club in Ottawa, this two day regatta is held on Lac Deschenes and is open to multiple keelboat and dinghy classes including C&C 27s. The One-Design races provide close and exciting competition on a course that allows several races to be run each day. This year we hope to have as many C&C 27s as possible from the Ottawa and surrounding areas competing for the Ontario Championship Trophy. We would be delighted to see boats from Toronto through to Montreal entered in the regatta. The club has two cranes that can be used for launching. We will also do our best to accommodate any C&C racers from out of town who would like to participate in racing on one of the local boats. For more information on the regatta please check out the NOD website.
http://nod.nsc.ca
If you are interested in racing your C&C 27 in the regatta, you can also contact me directly at chrismundi@yahoo.ca
Hope to see you out on the water!!!
Christina Mundi
2016 NOD C&C 27 Fleet Rep
Please note that Christina Mundi is not a Forum member, so all responses should be directed straight to her email or phone, not through the Forum.
- Admin
Anyone who still has a steel tank should replace it asap. A very few tanks are monel, and they're probably okay, but steel... get rid of it! Around 2005, a Mk I owner replaced his tank and found that he could push his finger through the bottom rust. About 2010, a Toronto boat lost the entire contents of its tank into the bilge. Fortunately the owner doesn't smoke and didn't try to start the engine. So here we are another six years on. The worst rust is probably on the bottom where you can't see it; don't tell yourself "it's probably good for the season" - replace it.
- Admin
165 % roller furling Genoa NO UV Mylar LPT Sl 1000 P 1.5
Reef reinforcements
Low clew for racing – as low as we can get it.
Choice of bag all race options included, Numbers, draft lines, foot and leach line telltales
Sail number 54116 is RED
Measurement Certificate
External sock blue Sunbrella Straight cover.
Both brand new, C$2200.00
nick.ehlert_at_sympatico.ca (replace the three characters _at_ with the usual)
">Please note that the seller is not a Forum member, so all responses should be directed straight to the seller's email or phone, not through the Forum. - Admin
Thank you for that answer. For me, and for many users of other forums, it is absurdly frustrating to read interesting questions on other forums, with no answers because the response has been PM'd to the questioner. Insisting on public responses seems to irk some participants here, but it has given us a robust, accessible body of data about these boats. Understanding and cooperation are appreciated.
Incidentally, this seems an appropriate time to add a Shaft-Seal warning - never leave the shaft uncoupled from the engine and unsupported when the boat is in the water. Shaft-Seals rely on a precise alignment of the mating surfaces. If the shaft is uncoupled and drooping, water will come in. A boat sank at its moorings a few years back on Toronto Island when the shaft was left uncoupled.
- Admin
Photos of the cap would be a very good idea. Increasingly, people are going to be doing what you and I found necessary. These boats are tough, but sheaves and their axles won't last forever.
Ideally, your photos should be accompanied by the dimensions of the original sheaves - diameter and width, axle hole size and anything you think might be helpful (particularly to someone whose circumstances force them to take down the mast, fix the sheaves and re-step the mast in one session).
Thank you.
- Admin
Over the past few weeks, we've had repeated site outages. I'm not going to apologize for them because I don't believe in apologizing for things that I and we (the Association) have no hand in, and have worked hard to avoid. Here's the story.
Some time ago, our secretary's credit card, with which we pay our ISP (Internet Service Provider) reached its expiry date and was replaced. Since then, he and I have made a number of attempts to give the new card details to our service provider. None of these attempts worked, but while they've gone on, we've had service terminated, then restored. And then terminated again. Rinse and repeat.
Yesterday and today, we've had a flurry of emails and phone calls which may or may not have resolved the problem (including their fixing of their fallback-of-last-resort payment form, which hasn't worked for three months). We shall see.
Should we say, forget it and move? Don't know -- they've been pretty good over the years, so I'm reluctant to rock the boat too hard. And moving a site is a real hassle. But the option is there. In the meantime, be assured that we want service back as much as you do. Stay tuned.
- Admin
Over the past few weeks, we've had repeated site outages. I'm not going to apologize for them because I don't believe in apologizing for things that I and we (the Association) have no hand in.
Some time ago, our secretary's credit card reached its expiry date and was replaced. Since then, he and I have made a number of attempts to give the new card details to our service provider. None of these attempts worked, but while they've gone on, we've had service restored. And then terminated again.
Yesterday and today, we've had a flurry of emails and phone calls which may or may not have resolved the problem (including their fixing of their fallback-of-last-resort payment form, which hasn't worked for three months). We shall see.
Should we say, forget it and move? Don't know -- they've been pretty good over the years, so I'm reluctant to rock the boat too hard. And moving a site is a real hassle. But the option is there. In the meantime, be assured that we want service back as much as you do. Stay tuned.
- Admin
Main Sail
#1 Dacron
#1 Mylar
#2 Mylar
All sails have been well used for racing. $200 each or $600 for all.
Respond to: richardleadbetter23@gmail.com .
Thank you.
Please note that all responses should be directed straight to the seller's email or phone, not through the Forum. - Admin
This is a topic that pops up from time to time; many people will be thinking about this as winter-discount time approaches. I thought this was a good response as it offers some reasonable tests you can apply to the structure of a sail (another one I learned a long time ago is that if you push a sailmaker's needle through dacron and the threads break instead of moving aside, you're way past the 'replace-by' date).
Assessing the shape of a sail that appears to be superficially acceptable is harder than assessing the structure. My suggestion is to take the sail to a sailmaker. Despite what many think, sailmakers tend to be generous and won't recommend a new sail if they think you're reluctant unless your sail is really, really shot. I'd like to reinforce two points (one of which he did not make explicitly): letting sails drag across the spar or rigging is pointlessly harsh - don't let your headsail back beyond a third of its length when tacking and fit shroud rollers on the forward lowers to minimize the abrasion. Also, if you have roller furling, take to heart what he says about securing roller-furling sails; I once saw a sail destroy itself in a squall because the owner hadn't rolled it tight - a sail-tie around the headstay is good insurance.
Thanks to Dave Flynn, cruising consultant at Quantum Atlantic,
Annapolis, MD, for permission to reproduce.
- Admin
How Long Do Sails Last?
By Quantum Sails
One of the most often asked question to any sailmaker is "how long will the sails last?" While there are many factors, our cruising expert Dave Flynn dives into what causes a sail to fail and what you can do to ensure you get every hour out of you sail!
This is a loaded question! The answer every cruising sailor wants to hear, of course, is ‘forever’ (or at least, ‘a very long time’). In reality, the answer is more complicated, but there are two key factors in the life of your sail: structure and sail shape.
Structure
The first thing to consider is the structural integrity of your sails. Structurally, sails gradually lose their integrity as the materials and stitching fail under the influence of the sun and use. UV causes woven polyester materials (Dacron®) to gradually lose tear strength. If you can take an existing tear and easily extend it by pulling with moderate pressure, it’s over. You can fix the tear with a patch, but it will just keep on tearing in other places, often at the edge of any repair.
Likewise, if you can run your fingernail across the stitching and pick it off easily, the sail needs re-stitching. It is normal for the stitching to rot before the material in the sail; that’s why it's important to examine sail stitching periodically and re-stitch areas as needed.
The life of your sail's structure depends on sunlight exposure and how strong the UV is. Other factors include the breeze your sails are used in and how much flogging, chafe, and other abuse they receive.
A better way to think of the structural life of your sails is in terms of hours of use. A reasonably well-treated woven polyester sail that is maintained regularly will last 3500-4000 hours.
A typical weekend cruising sailor using his boat two weekends a month, plus two weeks of cruising, over a five-month season will accumulate roughly 240 hours per year – those sails will last for 16 years! At the other extreme, a person living aboard their boat and cruising the Caribbean extensively will use their sails as much as 12 hours per day, 12 days per month, all year round, for a rough average of 1,728 hours a year. This sailor will be replacing sails every 2.5 years.
Shape
The second thing to consider is shape-life. This is more difficult to assess since sail shape deteriorates gradually with every hour of use. The effect of this is harder to judge than the condition of the cloth. Sails that stretch too much become too full and can't retain airfoil shape (having a distinct rounded entry and flat, straight exit). This loss costs you in subtle ways.
Full, stretchy sails rob power in light air, but more critically, they create heel and weather helm just when we want control. At some point, we have to sail upwind – usually at the least convenient times. If sails don't have proper shape and the materials and structures are not designed well enough to resist stretch, the boat will not be able to go upwind effectively.
Unfortunately, shape-life degrades more rapidly than structural life. Sails will be triangles long after they cease resembling anything like a critical airfoil. Shape-life is very dependent on harshness of use, but even when treated well, sails can only be expected to retain good shape for only half to two-thirds of the structural life of a sail – that’s roughly 1,700 to 2,700 hours of use. Periodic recutting helps. As long as the material is in decent condition, excess shape can be removed and an effective airfoil shape restored.
Relative to much of the gear on your boat, sails do last a long time, but – unfortunately – not forever.
When you do decide to replace your sails, you'll be pleasantly surprised. Your boat will come alive as dramatically as if you had put a new engine in your car. There will be spring in her step. When the wind is up there will be a greater sense of control, and going to weather might be fun again (at least for short periods of time).
To help protect your sail investment, here are some suggestions:
Protect your sails from unnecessary exposure to sunlight and heat.
Avoid prolonged luffing and flogging.
Motor with your sails down unless they can be filled.
Never back a genoa against the spreaders when tacking.
Use the correct halyard tension. Halyard tension changes as a function of apparent wind velocity. Add just enough tension to remove horizontal wrinkles as the apparent wind increases. Ease when the apparent wind velocity drops.
Protect from chafe. Make sure spreader and chafe patches are on and in the right place.
Take sails off the boat when not in use or out of the water for any extended time period.
Periodically rinse with fresh water. Annual professional servicing and washing is recommended.
Store sails dry.
Be sure roller furling sails are well secured when leaving the boat.
David Flynn
Quantum Atlantic
Annapolis, MD
410.268.1161
dflynn@quantumsails.com
Now listed in Black Arts / Parts.
- Admin
The routered number is Sundance III's Official Number or ON (see
http://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/Saf-Sec-Sur/4/vrqs-srib/eng/vessel-registrations/search-results?DataSource=AllRegisteredVessels&ExcludeClosedVessels=False&ExcludeSuspendedVessels=False&VesselName=sundance%20iii
and she's registered to one Lawrence Thomas. The other number you note is the builder's pre-HIN number.
The name is not really copyright, but registered vessel names must sound unique so there is no confusion when they are spoken over the radio (or so I was told when I registered my boat's name). FYI for US readers, registering a vessel is essentially the same as documenting in the US.
One more thing - registering is forever, but the papers are time-limited. They will be automatically replaced gratis every few years (4?), but only if Transport Canada has your current address.
- Admin
You are more likely to get a reply in the fall when people are pulling their boats apart for the winter; right now, looking at the tank probably means shifting a lot of stuff out of the way.
Repeat your query in mid-October and you might get a response.
Alternatively, call South Shore Yachts at 905/468-4340. They might be able to tell you or know how to find out. SSY have and sell the build files for all C&C's production so buying your boat's file might be the answer (but ask if it's there first).
If you find a model and part number, please post the info in the Forum.
Thank you.
- Admin
There are many explicit and implicit questions in this thread, some of which are answered, some of which may yet have to be puzzled out. I would suggest, though, that most if not all are well answered by the possession of Mr Moyer's A4 manual.
If you have an A4 and do not have the manual, I strongly urge that you get a copy. Firstly, you will do routine maintenance (you do perform routine maintenance or have someone do it, don't you?) with greater assurance. Secondly, you will probably be able to diagnose and address issues like the one raised in this thread more quickly and efficiently, with a lot less head-scratching and hesitation. You will avoid blundering up blind alleys, either by yourself or with the help of mechanics. The A4 is now so old and so old-tech that a lot of otherwise knowledgeable mechanics are bowled over by it. The engine is really quite simple though, if you know its ins and outs, which the manual explains.
Buy a copy. It may seem expensive, but it's worth every penny in questions answered and potentially, dollars saved.
- Admin
Arion 1971 C&C 27' (Mark I Hull #10)
Ready to sail, light cruise, race, live aboard comfortably. At BHCM Salem, MA since 2000, USCG documented, same owner 23 yrs (sailed, cruised some years, often lived aboard), selling because we’re getting too old and need to move on.
2012 Tohatsu 9.8 hp 4-stroke (bought new, dealer serviced), electric start
6 sails (main, working jib, 145, 170, heavy weather jib, spinnaker)
Standing rigging replaced 2008
Tiller, depthsounder, VHF radio (new 2014, new antenna & wiring 2014), compass, anchor/s
Running lights (new wiring 2014) & cabin lights.
Comfy liveaboard: Dodger (new 2011), 6’ standing headroom, Origo 4000 2-burner alcohol stove, built-in icebox, 20+ gal water tank, head and 6 gal. holding tank, sleeps 5, clean, transom mounted swim ladder.
$5500 obo (+ Blue Fin 8’ dinghy $250).
Photos: http://1drv.ms/1HzqiLt
Email ArionCC27#gmail.com (replace "#" with "@") or call Larry and Maddy 781-316-1547
Larry Raffel & Maddy Webster
Please note that all responses should be directed straight to the seller's email or phone, not through the Forum. - Admin
Write to Jim Wente at the address on http://www.cc27association.com/member.html . We've now made the pdf compact enough that we can email it rather than linking it.
- Admin