C&C 27 Association Forum

Autohelms weren't really a common thing when the Mk II was built in the early 1970s so whatever's on the boat would have been installed long after the boat left the factory.

Raymarine's the most popular brand around, if it's a tiller you'd be looking for a ST1000 (or possible ST2000) tiller pilot, if it's a wheel then check out their EV-100 wheel autopilot.

Cheers,
Tal

The top of the rudder in the images appears to have been cut down for the rear half of the blade, whereas the stock Mk III rudder had a flat top.  See attached photo of a stock rudder.

Since there's no shot of the whole rudder I can't tell whether the rest of the rudder blade matches the Mk III's relatively deep and high aspect shape.

Cheers,
Tal
ex "Critical Path" 27-3 #632

Double verified!  Night Vision's PO did a very nice job setting this boat up.

Cheers!

David,

Thanks so much for the years of service you've given C&C 27 owners (and the Class Association when it was active) everywhere by mastering this website.  Even though I sold Critical Path six years ago I still drop by to check in occasionally.

All good things must come to an end but the information gathered in this website is irreplaceable, too bad it'll disappear.

All the best!

Cheers,
Tal Wolf

Shark 24 "kraSh" Bay of Quinte Yacht Club
Aloha 30 "Knot Faster" Trident Yacht Club

Different Drummer's a Mk V IB sailed out of Bluffers Park Yacht Club in Scarborough.  Nicely set up for racing (particularly shorthanded).  Scroll down the page at http://ashbridgesbayyachtclub.org/?page_id=428 for the listing.

I have no affiliation, just know the boat and owner...

Cheers,
Tal
C&C 27 #632 Critical Path

Hi Richard,

Full battens offer the sail designer greater opportunity to increase the sail area on the leech and provide good shaping options utlitizing different batten types.  Popular race configurations are one or two full battens at the top and three or two partial battens lower down.  Four full battens are favoured by cruisers because they simplify the task of flaking the sail (especially in conjunction with lazy jacks), and provide increased longetivity because the prevent the sail from fluttering so the the cloth doesn't fatigue as quickly.  However, I don’t think they offer the shaping options of the split batten design.  You’ll find that different sailmakers will recommend different configurations – none are necessarily right or wrong, they just have varying opinions.

I’m not quite sure where to begin regarding sailmakers, so I’ll make the following disclaimer:  I used to work fulltime for a local sail loft that’s no longer in business.  The products we developed are still available from a small independent loft in Nova Scotia (where the owner moved).  As such, I have my own opinions that may or may not be shared by others as to how to choose the best sail value for your use.

Sailmakers typically break down into the following categories:

LOCAL BIGGIES:
These are the lofts you see advertised all the time, offering several quality levels of products, usually manufactured offshore and distributed locally.  Most do service work locally.  Prices are all over the map depending on technology, time of year, and capacity at their offshore manufacturing factories.  This’d be North (Toronto), UK (Toronto), Sobstad (Barrie), Doyle (I think Ed works outta his trunk nowadays!), and Evolution (Toronto, but they’re different because they do design/build many sails locally).

LOCAL INDEPENDENTS:
These typically offer good customer service for the type of customer a 27 buyer is.  Prices and product vary, but don’t fool yourself – there’s no deals out there and you get what you pay for!  Joe Drago (Scarborough), Triton (Port Credit), Sportech (St. Catharines), and KSL (Kingston) design, build, and service their sails locally.

IN BETWEEN:
Bay Sails Haarstick (Hamilton) is sorta in between the two categories above.  It’s a local loft, but most of their sails have been designed and (usually) plotted/cut in the US, then shipped to Hamilton for final assembly.

SAIL BROKERS:
Mail order (Lee, Rolly Tasker, Hyde) and online (FX, Atlantic, etc.) sail suppliers are typically built offshore to heavy specs.  Many people mistake heavy with high quality.  My recommendation would be to choose these products if cost is king, and avoid these products if performance is valuable.

One little-known industry secret is that some lofts source their less expensive and/or low technology sails from a third party subcontractor.  Design and quality should be similar to what they would’ve made themselves, but an outfit called “China Sail Factory” is a shadow manufacturing facility for many biggies and independents.  If the source of your sail is important to you, ask where it will be made and by whom.

My recommendation would be to decide what type of sail you’re looking for, send a request to as many lofts as possible, and see what you hear back.  You’ll receive a whole gamut of responses, from glossy brochures with lotsa glitz and technical info, to simple descriptions of the options available, to a phone call or email with price only!  Don’t be dismayed – just work your way through, ask more questions, and find a sailmaker who you trust and feel comfortable talking to and working with.  I can assure you that unless you’re sailing at a world-class level (and none of us 27 flunkies are!), the person you develop and relationship and choose to work with is more important than the brand label on the sail.

After 15 years of trying sails and sailmakers from Hood, North, Doyle, Sobstad, and US, I finally found a sailmaker who’s personality made me a comfortable and valuable client.  He subsequently became a lifelong friend and even my employer during a few lean years.  THAT’S the kinda guy you want to work with!  So go out there and find him (or her as the case may be!).

Cheers,
Tal Wolf
Critical Path
C&C 27 MkIII #632

Hi Stephane,

Critical Path has a single point centre chainplate like yours and our old Dermac wheel adjuster that gave up the ghost a few years ago.  We twisted on a conventional turnbuckle and kept sailing while deciding what to do next.

Like Dean suggested, we ran with a wrench and screwdriver combo, but I gotta tell you, that’s even slower and less efficient than the wheel was.  Decided I wasn’t going to spend good money on another inefficient adjuster (i.e. wheel or handle) but flipped when I saw the prices of Wichard’s ratcheting mechanical adjuster.  Looked at splitting the backstay, but after adding up the cost of new backstay plus split fittings, block and tackle, and new chainplates (I choose not to do structural work like chainplate design and installation myself) it was close to the cost of the ratchet adjuster and not really the route I wanted to take.  Whatever you choose, do NOT relocate your lower backstay terminations to the toe rail or cast end fittings – that’s a recipe for disaster.

I’ve decided to go another route, and just picked up a Sailtec integral hydraulic adjuster (http://www.sailtec.com/hydraulic_integral_adjusters.php).  It’s not cheap either, but retains the original backstay/chainplate configuration, allows me to keep the MOB pole on the backstay (instead of sticking it off the stern pulpit – man is that a fugly solution!), and looks kinda sexy and retro!  Don’t plan on pumping tons of pressure, just enough to keep the forestay taught and the head sliding door operational!

Cheers,
Tal
Critical Path, Mk III #632

Hi Stephane,

We haven’t encountered any problems when lowering the chute with twing blocks captive in the spin sheets.  The keys to a successful system are to make sure the blocks run easily, and that the line can’t run freely out of the side deck block (that’s one of the reasons I’d like to try David’s suggestion of a continuous line).

I’m not particularly keen on the Harken system you’ve found for two reasons.  First off, the double purchase is overkill for our needs and the added line plus the double traveler block is too much weight for the spin sheet of a 27 to bear.  Secondly, leading the line from a block on the rail to a cleat on the cabin top or coaming results in what can become a serious tripping hazard in a high traffic zone.  When we simplified the deck layout several years ago, the crew and I decided the danger factor wasn’t worth the convenience of leading the line to the cockpit or the reduced cost of the parts so we converted to forward cleating.

David’s absolutely correct that the blocks don’t need to be ball-bearing for this application, but having seen Barton equipment blow up (or stop functioning as expected) I would never add a piece of it on my boat.  Harken kit can get pricey, but it’s engineered elegantly and tends to work as advertised longer/better than most other brands, so personally I choose Harken products.  Your mileage may vary!

Cheers,
Tal
Critical Path
1976 Mk III #632

Barber Haulers, Tweakers, Twing Lines - they all refer to the same purpose in this application, namely controlling the location of spinnaker sheet and or guy lead by bringing it lower and closer to a midships location.

Another benefit for those of us sailing point-to-point races as opposed to windward/leewards is the ability to bring the guy down to deck level when the spin poles at or near the forestay.  Gives better leverage and much easier on the stanchions!

Before our deck reconfiguration, I used to run the sheet/guy through small Harken bullet blocks, which were led through big bullets snap shackled to the rail amidships (just behind the stanchion by the aft lower shroud), then aft to a cam cleat on the combing so we could control from the cockpit.  Tried a few variations on this theme but none solved the tripping hazard of running a (sometimes) loaded line across the side deck to the combing.

Now we run 40mm Harken Carbo Airblocks - #2650 at the end, through a #2646 that's snap-shackled to the rail and shock-corded to the lifeline.  I used to run the tails loosely back into the cockpit but like David's suggestion of s single continuous line and think I'll try that out this year!

The Harken blocks I use can be found at:
http://www.harkenstore.com/uniface.urd/sccyspw1.eShowPage?CATALOG=409Z56LC7FV66&CATEGORY=409Z56LC4WD9M

Cheers,
Tal
Critical Path
1976 Mk III #632

Hi John,

All three sails are still available for sale.  Email sent...

Cheers,
Tal

Wednesday?  WEDNESDAY??  Don't 'cha know some of us race on Wednesdays?!

Sorry I'll miss it.  Have a good one!

Cheers,
Tal Wolf
Critical Path
1976 C&C 27 Mk III #632