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Hi Richard,
I've owned Aragorn about 25 years longer than you've owned your boat so I'll offer what advice I've learned by adding comments to your post----
A. Rigging:
1. What is your preferred arrangement for the uphaul, downhaul & spin halyard lines? Currently I have the main halyard & vang on the starboard side of the cabin roof, and on the port side a single jiffy reef. (The genoa is on a furler so its halyard is cleated at the mast.) I'm thinking about putting the spin halyard on the starboard side and the up/downhaul on the port.
Basically, your choice
2. There is a block about 3/4 way up the mast which I assume is for the uphaul. I'm guessing the line should come down to a block at the foot of the mast and then through the fairleads back to the cockpit (there are a couple of large round fairleads on the cabin roof that look like they are meant for this purpose). And for the downhaul, I am assuming another block at the base of the mast and then through fairleads to the cockpit.
Those will work for you OK . But on Aragorn we use "tweakers" on the sheet/guy instead of a downhaul. The tweaker is idle on the sheet but pulls the guy downward to keep the pole at the right height== This avoids two lines attached to the pole and simplifies the "end -to-end" gybes we use. The tweakers are fastened to the toe rail at the widest point of the hull.
3. The lines I have that may be spin sheets seem to me a bit heavy compared to the rather light lines we use on the Thunderbird kite (though it is a smaller sail); they are 3/8 braided without much stretch. Possibly they are another set of genoa lines, but my understanding has always been that shackles are not a great idea on a genoa just because you don't want that much metal potentially flapping around and cranking somebody in the head. Possibly they are the up/downhaul sheets? If I need to buy new sheets, how long should they be, and what's the preferred type of line?
The 3/8 " lines with shackles sound like spinnaker sheet and guy to me. For very light air we substitute 3/16 " lines so they don't drag the spinnaker down with their weight .
3. There are 2 internal halyards with sheaves at the head of the mast; one I use for the furling genoa. I'm guessing the other is for another genoa (the boat came with a storm jib). There is also a harken block on a swivel up there which I'm guessing is for the spin halyard, which would run outside the mast. If I can use the internal it spares me going up the mast but I suspect the head of the spin needs to be able to swivel, hence the block.
Use the Harken masthead swivel block for the Spinnaker halyard.
4. The sheet/guy lines come back around outside all the rigging to snatch blocks clipped to the toe rail aft of the winches; how far back should those blocks be? Also: I only have one set of winches in the cockpit, though I have 2 smaller ones on the cabin roof -- I use the starboard one for the main halyard; I assume these are not meant for the spinnaker.
Our return bocks are set on the extreme aft end of the toerails . Like you, we have 2 large winches basically for the genoa but we use these downwind for the sheet and guy. This means that , on a spinnaker hoist, the leeward winch has to have the genoa sheet moved off that winch so that the spinnaker sheet can go there . Right after rounding, we move the genoa sheet to a cleat to free up the leeward winch. If you try to use one of the cabin-top winches, the spinnaker sheet has to go through the middle of the cockpit-- a pain !! On a very close reach, we sometimes use a cabin-top winch with the trimmer standing up by the mast to better see the curl in the chute.
B. Process:
1. Mostly my issue here is with how to coordinate raising & dousing the spinnaker when the boat has a furling genoa rather than a hank-on that gets raised & lowered. My assumption is it works similarly: the turtle bag gets clipped on the port side up near the pulpit, and the spin gets raised up on a starboard tack in the lee of the genoa until it catches a bit of wind. Then the genoa gets rolled up.
To douse, the process is reversed: unfurl the genoa to take the wind out of the spinnaker. Should you douse on the same (starboard) tack?
Starboard tack is preferred because you then have rights over port tackers but of course, it depends on whether the rounding is a "port' or "starboard" rounding.
2. Does the spinnaker get hauled down back around the genoa and into the companionway to be re-organized? or should it come back in front of it and into the hatch? or right into the bag? (or is that even possible?)
We have an 'oversized' bag into which we "bag-drop" the chute in normal wind strengths. We leave the halyard, sheet and guy all connected after the drop and simply velcro the top of the bag shut.
( instantly ready for the next hoist). In heavy air we do a "cabin drop" (leeward side)and re-pack the chute down below. Clip the sheet, guy and halyard together after the douse and use the guy to pull all forward to the bow.For a "cabin-drop" , the foredeck person goes below with the bag and uses the sheet to haul the chute into the cabin for repacking below. During the upwind leg, the bag gets taken back to the bow and has the 3 lines reconnected.
3. I assume this requires a crew minimum of 4: helm, foredeck for the pole, spinnaker trimmer, & middleman to hoist & help haul it back in.
Our crew is 4. Foredeck one person; 2 in the cockpit and yours truly.
4. Anyone ever used a chute scoop or similar dousing sock? Are they worth considering? Any other advice
No experience with them.
There are many ways "to skin a cat" but the ideas above are ways we've found to work with my crew.
Hope this helps with your downwind adventures !
Clare Jordan Aragorn
Hey R.
This web-page has a link to another C and C site where you'll find an "Alladin's Cave" of info. Among that stuff is a copy of the original C &C 27 Mk 111 brochure giving the mast height above the water as 41 feet. I've never measured it but have always used this number for clearance under bridges and power lines--- There's a marina nearby which I can't get to with Aragorn --- the power line strung across the entrance there is too low .
Given that the "P" figure for the Mark 111 is 31 feet, if you measure from the gooseneck fitting ( "x" feet)to the mast step, you can easily figure the distance from the mast step down to the waterline .
41 - 31= 10 feet from the gooseneck to the waterline minus "x" = above water height of the hull . Add the draught of 4 ' 6" and you'll find you needed clearance ( except that the hatch cover is a little higher than the mast step and as Dave suggests , you'll need a bit of room under the cradle as well)
Hey Dan,
Sounds like you're making yourself way too much work. Moving the muffler ??? Wow !
Putting the batteries in the bilge area is moving them to a lower spot than they are at present and into an area where gas fumes (if any) would accumulate. Batteries don't "spark" anyway!
Use your time/energy in better way--- go sailing and enjoy your boat.
Clare Jordan Aragorn
Dana,
On the way to you by e-mail
Clare
Light beige "Sunbrella" bimini (with cover) and a "zip-on" battened cockpit shade awning which extends forward from the front of the bimini 5 feet and lies on top of the boom ( Of course, the sunshade is used only when at a dock or at anchor). Custom fitted to fit a Mk 111 with single backstay and built by Kingston Marine snd Canvas.
This bimini was desigend with the forward hoop "split" so as to fit around the single backstay and is able to be mounted and dismounted from the boat with "quick-pull" pins in 3-5 minutes. (Lets you install it for cruising - remove it for racing.) The bimini also has "zip-on" side shades. For a picture of "Aragorn" with the bimini installed see -- "The Fleet"
$500.00
Clare Jordan, Aragorn --Ingleside Ontario
Thanx Dave,
Perhaps someone else will respond.
CJ
Does anyone know of an economical source in Canada to replace the cockpit drain hoses on my Mk 111?
Clare Jordan Aragorn
Raymarine is the company for Autohelm products and a few years ago I had my unit repaired very quickly at one of their Canadian locations . If you go to http://www.raymarine.com/Default.aspx?site=1§ion=3&page=1406 , you'll find a map on which you can find your nearest repair location.
Clare Aragorn
The sail has been sold and has found a new home only 100 km. away.
Clare Jordan, Aragorn
MAINSAIL-- For C & C 27 Mk 111 . Built by John Clarke, Kingston Sail Loft. Although retired from our racing inventory , this sail could suit someone as a cruising sail with a few years life left in her.
Loose footed, 2 full and two short battens; two reef points.
1/10 the price of new @ $200.00.
Clare Jordan - Aragorn Ingleside Ont boscoatbell.net
Hey Brent,
We've all done that type of spinnaker hoist. The last one we did, I told my foredeck guy, "Mike, that was the quickest hoist I've seen in a long time , but, it took forever to sheet it in!!"
Clare Jordan
ARAGORN
Hi Copa,
When you had no backstay tensioner it is likely that the single backstay was attaced midway across the transom and therefor it's attachment point was futher aft than the two corner points you are now using to attach your split backstay??????
Also, sailmakers lately have beem adding more and more roach to their mainsails thus reducing the clearance between the leach and the backstay -- An acquaintance of mine, after getting a new mainsail, ended up having to add a 1/4 " plate extending backward 4" at the top of his mast for his backstay atttachment point just so he could tack his main winds under 12 knots !!!
if you want to race find one with a full keel. Shoal will not be fast.
Jim
Hey guys, If racing was all about crossing the line first, the larger boats would always win. Since we don't all own the same type/size of boat, we try to equalize the playing field with a variety of handicapping systems, none of which is absolute, but better than "MY BOAT IS BIGGER AND FASTER THAN YOURS".
The system I now race under (SLVYRA) is very similar to the former system I had (PHRF-Lake Ontario). The handicap difference shown in SLVYRA between a shoal draft and full keel is 6 seconds/mile for time/distance and 1.00 vs .993 for time /time.
As I said ealier, in theory, given 6 seconds per mile advantage, the shoal draft boat should tie the full keel boat , if they are equally well sailed.
Clare Jordan
ARAGORN
Hi Neil,
If your potential boat has a shoal draft keel and you are intending to race under some recognized handicapping system (such as PHRF etc.) the handicap assigned to your boat will , in theory, compensate for the differences between a shoal draft and a regular draft keel.
Clare Jordan
ARAGORN
Hi Dean,
I have a Mk 111 and I put a shim of about 3/16 inch thickness under the forward edge of the mast , not to induce "rake" but to better allow the mast to bend a bit.-- I have set my forward lower shrouds somewhat tighter than the aft shrouds so that when I pull harder on the backstay adjuster, the higher tension of the fwd. lowers creates a bit of forward bend in the middle of the mast which flattens the mainsail a bit as the wind increases.
If you want to adjust the "rake" in your rig, I suggest do it by adjusting the forestay and backstay tensions to position the mast-head behind the mast-step as much as needed to make it rake the desired amount. A heavy weight ( a pail of water?) hung from the main halyard will let you measure the amount of rake you have.
Clare Jordan ARAGORN
Hi Tony.
As a suggestion, try an electric pump which may be much easier to rig up. I cannot recall now but I beleieve I bought mine at an RV dealership (cheaper than a marina). It came with a 12 volt pump and a tap mounted on a base which had a switch for the pump. I later changed the switch to a push-button (so it couln't be left on.)
Clare Jordan
Aragorn
Unrelated, but my friend at Brockville Yacht Club (John Kerr) owns hull #2 of the C & C 25 line.
Apparently, it was originally made for someone at C and C and has a unique feature-- a Pop-Top which provides head room in the galley area when it is raised.
After all these years, the boat (and the skipper) still sail very , very well.
Clare Jordan
ARAGORN