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C&C 27 Mark II refit. To be used for around the cans and short to medium cruising.
Here is the current (original I think) running rigging deck hardware layout:
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/penguinfun/2832282227/">http://www.flickr.com/photos/penguinfun/2832282227/
I</a> will be removing all the deck hardware to paint the deck, so I want to redesign the running rigging deck hardware layout using Spinlock or Garhauer rope clutches with curved epoxy bases. My problem is figuring out what to salvage vs replace and how to lay out the controls, given I have not yet had the mast up in this boat to check out the existing running rigging.
I am considering using the existing two 3-sheave organizers (one each side) and installing a set of 3-line rope clutches on each side. The 1970's C&C 27 manual says the lines are 3/8" (= 9/5 mm) for the three halyards, boom vang, reefing line and spinnaker pole topping lift.
There are two small winches on each side of the coach roof, but seems to me that with the rope clutches I will only need one, so I could replace the forward one on each side with a rope clutch. And should also be able to get rid of the 3 cleats and 4 jam cleats on each side.
Possible layout:
Port:
Jib halyard.
Spinnaker pole topping lift.
Spinnaker pole downhaul<img src="emoticons/icon_question.gif" alt="" />
Stbd:
Main halyard.
Spinnaker halyard.
Reefing line or outhaul or boom vang.
That still leaves:
Two of: Reefing line or outhaul or boom vang.
And I need to consider the dodger I am ordering.
Thoughts?
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"New" 1974 C&C 27 Mk II undergoing refit
This looks like an opportunity for a new Black Arts page. Let's fire up those digital cameras and produce some deck layout photos. The one presented on Flickr is a good model, but add any views that would aid understanding. Please include descriptions of what's there (because it won't necessarily be obvious from photos), along with an appreciation of what works and what doesn't. Please use the photo submission address used in The Fleet. Thank you. - Admin
Last edited by (2008-09-25 20:48:53)
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1974 Mark II C&C 27
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Hi there Windyday.
Some thoughts from personal experience, based on setting up and testing a number of cabin-top layouts over the past 3 decades:
Put the jib and spinnaker halyards together on the port side. This will put them together on the high side for a spinnaker hoist/genoa drop when you are doing the round the buoys racing with marks to port (the usual choice for race committees). Most boats have their downhaul on the starboard cabin side (optimized for right-handers) and their uphaul on the starboard cabin top, so that one person can play both lines at the same time. If you often get crew who are used to other boats, you may want to stick with this convention just for the sake of familiarity.
There is no real drawback to having the main halyard on the usual low side (starboard), but it should have the reefing lines right beside the halyard so that crew does not have to move from one station to another while reefing. It is also a good idea to have the cunningham beside the main halyard, since they are linked by their relationship to main luff tension.
In general, a racing boat with a single set of forward halyards should be optimized with from 8 to 10 lines on the cabin-top and cabin-side:
1. Spinnaker Halyard
2. Genoa/Jib Halyard
3. Main Halyard
4. First Reef Line
5. Second Reef Line (optional)
6. Cunningham
7. Boom Vang
8. Outhaul (optional)
9. Uphaul
10. Downhaul (usually on cabin side)
On my boat, I have supplemented these lines with an additional genoa and spinnaker halyard, but these typically only come into play for longer distance racing and sailing. Also, the second genoa halyard has been optimized for work with my furling headsail by being run through a halyard restrainer.
Another thought: when putting down the rope clutches, you may want to stagger them rather than lining them all up side by side. The reason for this is that their plastic handles have been known to break. Replacing the handle is simple, but it usually involves driving out the stainless hinge pin. If all of the clutches are lined up in a row, then replacing the handle will first require dismounting the clutch in order to get access to the hinge pin. On my cabin top, each side has a double and triple Spinlock XAS clutch. These clutches have been spaced so that I can drive out the hinge pins and replace handles without having to dismount the clutch body. All of the clutches lead into a total of 2 cabin-top winches, one per side, which is more than adequate. I chose the Spinlock clutches because they are more tolerant of variations in line size than the Lewmar "Wave" clutches. I will try to take some clear pictures of my cabin-top and get them posted on Black Arts so that my solutions are clear to see.
Good luck with your redesign and remember to think through the actual functionality and usage of each line in the heat of racing before you make a commitment. It may be a nuisance to redirect a halyard to the other side of the cabin-top now, but it may well pay off in much cleaner access and usage at a future date. The cost of hardware is trivial compared to your investment in time and possible frustration.
Marcus from Carriden (Hull #847)
Marcus Opitz,
Formerly from Carriden, Mk III, Hull #847,
now skippering "Everdina," a 1975 Ontario 32
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Perfect, Marcus, thanks. I would like to see some photos.
You just solved another problem for me: XAS vs XTS Spinlocks. Glad to hear the lesser priced model is adequate for the C&C 27.
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"New" 1974 C&C 27 Mk II undergoing refit
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1974 Mark II C&C 27
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Definitely the main halyard goes on the port side. You want the primary working (racing) spin halyard on the starboard side for mark roundings. The primary Genoa halyard can go there as well -- depends where you want the pit man to be hoisting and winching the Genoa halyard while you are approaching the leeward mark and may also be dousing, gybing, trimming the mainsheet in, etc.
I have also seen it suggested that the main halyard and reef line should be on opposite sides -- therefore a winch for each -- but this was for a larger boat with a frac rig, and thus higher reefing loads.
If you have 2 Genoa halyards then they should be split port and starboard.
I have also seen an XAS clutch on the mast for the spin halyard. Given that there's another back on the cabin, it means that the bowman can jump the spin halyard for the hoist, but either position (mast or cabin) can dump the spin halyard for the douse (as long as the other clutch is open).
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I have seen the sections in Black Arts for Genoa tracks on the side decks, but there is a little variety in terms of placement on the deck -- are there any firmer recommendations regarding placement?
Cheers,
Chuck
Chuck Lanning
NSC, Ottawa
Chuck Lanning
C&C 27 Mk V, Chivas & Champagne
NSC, Ottawa
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There is now a Black Arts section devoted to deck layouts. If anyone has photos of unusual or particularly well worked-out layouts, I'd be glad to see them.
A rope clutch on the mast for the spinnaker halyard is overkill, in my estimation. A large cam-cleat will hold the chute for a moment while everyone catches up.
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Excellent, Thanks. The deck is now free of nearly all hardware to prep for painting, so I have the winter to think over revisions.
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"New" 1974 C&C 27 Mk II undergoing refit
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1974 Mark II C&C 27
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Marcus,
Did you really mean to say that your Genoa and Spin halyards are on the port side cabin top? This would put the pit crew on the low side as you approach the windward mark on the starboard tack layline, right?
Anyhow, on our (smaller) boat we use a cam cleat on the mast. This is a common set-up on Sharks as well. The nice thing about this is that the pit can yank the spin halyard and pop the halyard out of the mast-mounted cam cleat so that it's ready for the drop (as long as there is a little offset in the halyard angle.)
Cheers,
Chuck Lanning
NSC, Ottawa
Chuck Lanning
C&C 27 Mk V, Chivas & Champagne
NSC, Ottawa
Offline
Chuck, you are quite right about them being on the low side for hoisting on a starboard-tack approach. However, on a triangular course, you typically approach the leeward mark (third mark) on a port tack. Since the spinnaker take-down is typically the point of maximum confusion, noise and screw-up, I find it handy to have the halyard clutches on the high side at this time, away from the actual spinnaker coming in under the boom and over the lifelines.
Also, whenever we are running a windward-leeward course we still prefer to come in to the leeward mark on port tack, as this simplifies the issue of hardening up on the genoa and driving out from the mark. So again, the port side becomes the high side, keeping the person working the cabin-top high and away from the person tailing the genoa. I hope that this clarifies the thinking that I was using in setting up my cabin-top.
Marcus from Carriden
Mk III, Hull #847
[No sooner said than lifted as an addition to the page. As a manufacturing improvement consultant friend says, "When you see a good idea, steal it with pride in your own perspicacity in recognizing it for what it is!" - Admin]
Last edited by (2008-09-25 09:54:08)
Marcus Opitz,
Formerly from Carriden, Mk III, Hull #847,
now skippering "Everdina," a 1975 Ontario 32
Offline
Makes, sense, after all it's what works for you.
I spend a lot of effort re-arranging my cabintop only to doscover that it was probably better the way the designer left it.
Cheers,
Chuck
Chuck Lanning
NSC, Ottawa
Chuck Lanning
C&C 27 Mk V, Chivas & Champagne
NSC, Ottawa
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