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Alan, I use Wichard snap shakles, the smallest they make and they have worked fine for the past 5 years and stood up to many broaches.
I also use a set of light air sheets for when the wind is almost noexistant and we just tie them on with bowlines, seems to work fine, they are 1/8th braided dacron.
Steve
Tony:
I have hoisted many people up the mast on my Mark V for various reasons, you should have no problem with the strength of the turning blocks at the base of the mast, they do afterall take the load of the sails when fully hoisted and tensioned so if they will take that they should easily take the weight of most adults.
Steve Reid
Still Knot Working
Mark V #75
Allen:
On Still Knot Working, and indead any boat with an overlapping genoa that I have ever sailed on, we tie the genoa sheets on with a bowline.
The last thing you want is some large piece of metal flaining around on the foredeck every time you tack the boat. For the spinnaker we use snap shakels. You ned find the lightest ones you can that will have sufficient strength for the load of the spinnnaker, especially when it collapses and refills.
Hope that helps.
Steve Reid
Still Knot Working
Allan:
Just saw your post regarding keel templates. I have a set, which I made about 4 years ago. Like yourself I wanted to get the shape of my keel on my Mark V as close to the designed shape as possible. After researching ways to come up with the correct foil shape and a phone call with Rob Ball, the original designer of the boat at C&C, I decided to get a set of the original drawings from South Shore Yachts. From those drawings I was able to loft the shape and make the templates.
The templates have now been used to fair my keel, another Mark V at my home club and a boat in Buffalo NY.
If you are interested the templates are currently available, boxed for shipping and I could send them to you within the next week. All I sk is that you cover the cost of shipping and make a donation of $100.00 to the Still Knot Working competition fund. If you are interested please contact me.
Steve Reid
Still Knot Working Mark V #755
Are you planning on racing the boat next summer? Shure would be good to get another Mark V out on a regular basis, I know that Smoke is planning on doing some of the regattas next year so we have the makings of a really good 5,6,7 boat level fleet.
Was just discussing the prospects this morning with Distant Thunder and there is appearently a Mark V out of Niagara that will be doing some racing next summer maybe we could get enough boats to constitute a fleet at Levels next summer.
Steve
If you don't find a buyer, I'd be interested in working out some sort of a deal to borrow/rent the trailer for a week next summer.
Steve Reid
Still Knot working Mark V #75
As much as I hate to admit it, I'm still on dial up, can't do much about it unlesss I'm, willing to change providers and that means revising all of my stationary and notifying all of my contacts and links, what a pain in the you know what.
So here I am stuck with slow speed, not something I'm used to.
Steve
Still Knot Working Mk V #75
Brent:
The addition of the intermediate shrouds appear to be a running change that was made to the Mark V's. The early boats (we have one at our club Kokomo) did not have the intermediates. I believe you will find that there is a differance between the mast section used on the early boats (1984 vintage) and those built after early 1985, The newer mast section is a little lighter section and that may explain the reason the uppers were added. The intermediates are a much smaller diam. wire. On my boat I don't really put much tension on the intermediates only enough to keep the mast streight undr sail.
Steve Reid
Still Knot Working Mk V #75
Alen:
Glad to hear the Smoke is alive and well and back on Lake Ontario, you've got yourself one heck of a good boat there, as Jim W. said earlier in a post Smoke is reputadely the fastest Mark V ever built.
I know a guy by the name of Jamie Ford, used to sail out of our club EYC a number of years ago. Are you any relation of his?
As for the Rope Clutches I'd recommend going with new and I'd go with Spinnlock if I was replacing them. I have Spinnlocks on Still Knot working, although they are not the current version, but they work great, no need to open them to pull the haylards up, you only need to open them to release and I have had no problems with them holding.
Steve Reid
Still Knot Working Mark V # 75
Barry:
Contact me, I may have what you are looking for (work 905)856-8333) .
Steve Reid
Anybody know where I could get the use of a road trailer for a Mark V next summer for a week? I'm looking for something in close proximity to Toronto, but willing to travel a bit if I need to to pick it up. I am considering taking my boat from Toronto up to Lake Erie for the LYRA Regatta in Buffalo and would rather go by road than through the Welland.
Steve Reid
Still Knot Working MkV #75
Brent:
Our inventory is almost exclusively Doyle. We have a #2 which is Quantum, but it's a cut down #1 and not what I consider a great racing sail.
Our current #1 is a Doyle FLex and was new at the beginning of this season, it replaced a 4 year old Doyle Square Weave Dacron. I'm not convinced that either sail is/was (when it was new) better that the other. each sail, in it's day had it's good points and it's not so good points.
As to what material to go with, that's a really good question. I had to make a choice last fall when I was deciding on the purchase of a #1. I did a lot of talking to my sailmaker and weighing the pros and cons of dacron versus a laminate material. I had been a very strong proponant of Dacron Square Weave, and still feel it has some really good atributes on boats our size. My current main is Square Weave and after 4 seasons is still nice and crisp and the shape is holding up very well. But when it comes to a Genoa I'm now leaning more to a laminate material. In terms of cost I found that it really didn't make much differance whether I went with Dacron or Flex. The reason was that if we went dacron the sail would have to be a tri-radial cut and therefore more seams and hand work. With the Flex we could go with a cross cut design and what we saved on the seams and hand work was offset by the higher cost of material.
I have chosen Doyle, over all the other choices out there, simply because I have a very good relationship with the loft, sailmaker and designer. I can talk to them and they will work with me to get the sail right. My dock neighbour at the club, Distant Thunder 27 MkV 69, has mostly Quantum on the boat, he also has a UK Halsey. He seems to like the sails and he's fast. I've never had any experiance with North or 3DL, we have a Mark 5 at the club that has North Sails on it, they are about 3 or 4 years old now and I have gotten the impression from the owner that he is looking to make some changes.
I don't know what Sailmakers you have access to in your area, I'd be happy to put you in touch with Doyle if you decide you want to go that way. I think that the most important thing is that you find a Sailmaker that you can work with, one who will spend the time to find out what your needs are and your style of racing and then build you the sails for your boat, not just pick some design out of his library and say here you go.
As to the durability ofthe sails, a lot depends on how you use (abuse) them and how you maintain them. If you push any sail beyond it's limits it will shorten it's life, if you don't store the sails properly it will shorten their life. I send my sails back to the loft each fall to be checked over and fix anything that needs fixing.
Hope this helps and if I can be of any further help let me know.
Steve Reid
Still Knot Working 27 MkV #75
Copasetic:
Sorry for taking so long to get back to you with a response. I did try a couple of times but for some reason it got lost in cyberspace.
Anyway here you go. First of all the traveller system on my boat is a Harken Windward Sheeting system, not cheap but worth every $$$$ in my opinion. With the Harken system there is no need to release one side as you tack, to be able to adjust from the new windward side. The device does it automatically for you. The way it works the cam cleats are mounted on the traveller car itself. The control line dead ends on the traveller car, goes to a bullit block mounted on the cockpit combing and then back to a turning block on the traveller car and to the cam cleat (3:1 purchase). When the boat tacks and the load on the traveller car changes from one side to the other, the old windward side cam cleat opens and the new windward side cam cleat closes.
So now to the choreography: First the Main Trimmer, she sits on the windward side on the deck with her forward butt cheek resting against the aft cabin bulkhead. When I call for a tack she gets ready to move (doesn't move till I say "ready about") AS I say "helms-a-lee" the Main Trimmer moves to the companionway (centre of the boat) as the bow crosses head to wind the Main Trimmer looks up (shes facing aft) makes sure that the leach of the main has cleared the back stay, grabs the new windward side traveller control line, moves to the new windward side position and adjusts the traveller. The Jib Trimmers, Grinder and Tailer, the tailer is sitting on the windward rail/deck, just forward of the Main Trimmer, the Grinder (in light wind <8 kts.) is sitting to leeward constantly adjusting the Genoa. If it's blowing (10> kts) the grinder has set the Genoa and is sitting on the windward side immediately forward of the Main Trimmer (the tailer is now sitting just forward of the Grinder). When I call for a tack the Grinder and Tailer get ready to move (get the blood flowing in their legs) they don't move till I sat "ready about"). When I call "ready about" they both move, the Grinder to the Windward Primary and insets the winch handle, (the winch has already been preloaded with turns of the lazy sheet), the Tailer moves to the leeward forward side of the cockpit, her forward theigh is just aft of the traveller, she grabs the lazey sheet and pre-tensions the sheet, (if it's light wind <8 kts. the Grinder has simply to move across the cockpit to the windward primary). As I call Helms-a-lee" I move across the cockpit (10> kts) and release the genoa sheet from the leeward primary (<8 kts. I simply move aft just before the tailer moves into her position). As the bow comes head to wind the genoa is released and trimmed in on the new tack, I oversteer slightly to allow the boat speed to build as the Genoa is trimmed in, I preload the new windward primary and move into my steering position (<8 kts. forward lower corner of the cockpit, 10> windward side cockpit combing just aft of the primary)
The Primary winches on my boat are Harken 18's self tailing, the previous owner had them installed and I bless him every time we are sailing.
So I hope that helps you and it's as close as I can get to giving you a video. If you want to come play with us sometime this fall or next spring we be glad to have come out and do some 2 boat tuning.
Steve Reid
Still Knot Working, 27 MkV #75
Robert:
The first step is to go to the Black Arts and print out the Tuning Guide for the Matk V. I have found that the boat needs the maximum amount ot rake to get the boat to point, so I go with about 16". The next issue is to get the mast centered in the boat (side to side), I use a spare sail slide in the mast track (put it on before you feed the slides for your main so it sits above the othere slides) then I use the main haylard to hoist the slide with a tape measure attached up to he top of the mast. I do that because the main haylard does not exit the top of the mast at the centre line, it's off set to one side. I measure to a fixed point on each side (the deck at the toe rail is best) dirctly abeam of the mast. Tension your uppers to get the mast head in the centre of the boat and then adjust the lowers to keep the mast in column.
Once you have the mast in the centre you will need to tension (make equal adjustments by counting the number of turns {tighter ot looser} on the tuenbuckles) to get the correct load on the rigging. I use a LOOSE Gauge and I'm at about 28 - 30 on the uppers, this tension will induce a good amount of pre-bend into the mast with a slack (hand tight) backstay. Pre-bend is important to the boat especially if you have a fairly full Main Sail, if you Main is cut flat then less pre-bend, if it's full more pre-bend. The other thing you want to check (this will also affect pre-bend) is the arrangement of your upper shrouds and the intermediat shrouds (if you boat is equipped with intermediates - some of the early boats weren't), the uppers should be in the aft slot at the spreader ends. your lowers should be in the aft hole at the spreader roots, if they are in the forward hole it will inhibit mast bend.
Once you have the rig set up you need to pay attention to how you have the boat set while sailing. the boat is sensitive to main sheet tension and traveller car placement.
My boat has a solid Vang and we "Vang Sheet" the main which is a fairly full sail with a maximum roach so we have to be very carefull to not over vang/sheet the sail or the leach acts as a break. We set the vang to get the shape we want and then play the traveller to get the amount of helm I'm confortable with in the given conditions.
Headstay sag is another factor that seems to affect the Mark V, we generally go with a very streight headstay (very little sag) in anything except very light (under 5 kts.), (or very heavy over 15 kts. with big waves), in which case we slack the backstay of a bit to give the Genoa a little more shape.
Genoa sheeting on my boat is to the cockpit coming track for the #1 & 2 and to the deck track (about 4 -5 holes back from the front end) for the #3.
I see you said that you keep the crew out of the cockpit and that's a good thing, but where you place them on the deck is critical also. On my boat, the only people allowed in the cockpit most of the time are my jib trimmer who lives on the primary winch and works the trim constantly (she weighs about 130 lbs.) My Main Trimmer/Traveller person (she weighs about 140 lbs. on the deck as far forward as possible and still be able to work the sheet and traveller controlls. The helmsman (I'm a big guy 230 lbs.) sits to windward with my froward theigh right up against the aft side of the primary winch. If it's light (under 5 -6 kts.) then I'll often sit to leeward in the front corner of the cockpit. In general, upwind, the boat likes to have the weight centered on the rail more aft than forward (use the cabin windows as a referance or keep the crew stationed between the 2nd and 3rd lifeline stantions). As the wind lightens move the crew forward and inboard, but the furthest forward anyone should be is the shrouds. As the wind increases move the crew aft and outboard. Downwind weight in the back of the boat is deadly, you have to keep the bottom edge of the transom out of the water, especially in light to medium conditions (if you hear gurgeling you are slow). When the wind picks up the boat needs weight aft to keep the stern down and prevent the boat from rounding up under spinnaker and broaching, so I start moving people to the stern rail untill I have good control and the rudder will keep the boat steering.
Hope this helps let me know if you need any more.
Steve Reid
Still Knot Working Mark V #75
[The original C&C tuning guide for the Mk V is in Sea Change (the one in Black Arts deals with the Mks I to IV). That said, I'd like to put this in Black Arts if Steve gives his consent -- anyone have any differences of opinion, additions, etc.? - Admin] [Now done.]
The C&C 27 Mark V Canadian Championships is comming up on Auguat 29/30 at Etobicoke Yacht Club. This is a fantastic event with great racing and super socializing.
there will be 2 days of racing where all marks of the 27 race, with scoring based on PHRF, Level and for the Mark V's their Championships.
Registration is online and easy through the LORC web site or through EYC www(dot)eyc(dot)ca to the LORC web site.
Come on out and play, the weather in late August usually provides good consistant winds and warm evenings. Hope to see you there!
Steve Reid
Still Knot Working Mk V #75
Robert:
I had a look at the top step on my Mark V last night, doesn't look all that difficult to replicate it. It's made out of a piece of Teak and you would likely have to laminate (edge glue) 2 or 3 pieces together to get the width you need but that's not particularly difficult, any competant woodworker should be able to do it. As for the the 3 or 4 crouves that run across the step pad they can be done with a router, again anyone who is handy with woodworking tools should be able to do the job. The only thing you want to make sure to do, is to get whoever you get to make the piece up uses a good marine epoxy to laminate (edge glue) the pieces of teak. If you go to someone who is familiar with doing marine work they should already know that, if you go to a cabinet maker you might want to make shure they use marine epoxy.
Steve Reid
Still Knot Working Mark V #75
Cheap and boat are not words that can be used in the same context. The fact is that they have the correct part.
Steve Reid
Barry:
I'd still check with Rob at South Shore Yachts, he can usually supply you with what you need or tell you exactly what and wher to get it.
Steve Reid
It all depends on when and where the boat was built, Canada or Us. But in most cases the Spinnaker Pole fitting on the mast was a specific slider that fitted either outside (early boats) or inside the mast extrusion. your best bet is to contact South Shore Yachts, they likely have the part you are looking for. Call them rather than emailing, you can get their contact info here on the web site.
Steve Reid
Still Knot working #75
Brent:
I have done quite a bit of work to the keel on my Mark V (hull #75), 3 years ago I made fairing templates from original C&C Drawing of the boat. I got the drawings from South Shore Yachts. If you want to contace me directly I may be able to help you with your questions and tell what I have found. My email is steve dot reid at allstream dot net. The large hunk of solid grp, as you describe it, is actually part of the hull and was moulded when the boat was laid up in the mould.
Yuo might also try contacting Rob at South Shore Yachts regarding your situation, Rob worked for C&C at the time that these boats were built and he is very familiar with how they were made, you may also be able to acquire copies of the original layup drawing from him. If you are interested in templates for the keel I still have the ones I made so contace me.
Steve Reid
Still Knot Working Mark V #75
[Normally I delete any reference to private responses via e-mail unless for the purpose of buying or selling something. Why? read this explanation. This query and its answer, however, are potentially so complex that I'm going to let them stand. We would, however, appreciate a precis of the conversation and your discoveries for the record. - Admin]
Thanks Jim, we had a great weekend and EYC did an outstanding job of running their regatta. Still Knot Working and crew want to thank Distant Thunder, Minx, Blue Heron and Bill's Toy for coming out and giving us some great compitition. We only wish that there had been more Mark V's turn out for the Championships, maybe next year. The N/A's will again be at EYC and it will be the weekend before Labour Day Aug. 29/30 2009 so people can get the dat on their calendars and get their crews together.
Steve Reid
Still Knot Working MK V #75
Time for a Bump on this topic.
Who's coming? This is going to be a GREAT Event. There is usualy good wind and the racing will be fantastic. Word has it that a Rum Co. that is known for it's red hats will be sponsoring the weekend. There is a great band laid on for Saturday night and EYC's steak bar-b-q is well known around the lake. So go to the LORC web site and register online. Let's make sure that the C&C 27 fleet is the largest fleet there.
Jim:
The rivets are likely aluminim or stainless steel, if they aren't rusted they surely aren't steel. As to the size it's, best to drill them out and then size the new rivets to fit the holes (you might end up enlarging the holes as you drill out the old rivets. Most of the load at that point it shear so I would replace them with stainless steel if I were you.
Where are you sailing out of?
Steve Reid
Still Knot Working Mk V #74
Etobicoke yacht Club, toronto
Stephen:
6" of rake on the Mark V is not very much. The boats around here that are doing well are all running anywhere from 12 to 16" of mast rake. I think you will find that the boat will point much higher if you increase your rake.
Steve
Still Knot working MkV #75
Sneaky Pete:
Where are you sailing out of?
I could give you the tension readings I have on my Mark V but it all depends on which Loose gauge you are using. If you are using the standard pull tension gauge you'r readings will not be the same as mine as I'm using the "hands free" professional gauge.
Your numbers sound in the ball park for the uppers, but a little light on the lowers and high on the intermediates.
How does the rig look under sail in about 8 - 10 knots?
Is it in column? How much prebend do you have with the back stay slack?
If it's in column under sail then your uppers, lowers and intermediates are right. Depending on the main on your boat you should have about 3 - 4" of prebend with a slack back stay, more if you have a main that is full cut and less if it's really flat. The prebend is a function of the amount of tension on the uppers, so if you add tension to the uppers, to increase prebend, you will have to increase the tension on the lowers and intermediates proportionatly. Head stay tension is irelevant because you want to adjust that as you are sailing, by tensioning the back stay. Light air, flat sea minimum tension on the back stay, as the wind increases and as you want to point higher tension the back stay. Powering up as you come off the start line minimum tension on the back stay as you build boat speed and want to head up tension up the back stay.
Hope that helps.
Steve Reid
Still Knot Working Mk V #75
Etobicoke Yacht Club, Toronto