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#151 General discussion » Exhaust layout C&C 27 with Atomic 4 » 2008-09-30 10:50:10

windyday
Replies: 8

I am revising this C&C 27 Mk II's A4 exhaust. I found lots of info on sailboat specs and design in general, but would appreciate some specifics on the C&C 27. What layouts are used in this model with an Atomic 4?

This Mark II 27 has a 12" x 12" Onan water lift muffler. It seems solid enough, but I'll remove the bushings and inspect inside over the winter. It sits on a plywood base just to port of the aft end of the engine, against the bulkhead.

I'm probably going to design and have built a SS pipe run from the manifold to the muffler. I know I could use black steel from the hardware store, but I have access to a good welder.

On this boat, the muffler base is a few inches higher than the base of the engine. The manifold dry exhaust outlet is about level with the muffler inlet. Currently there is an 8" high loop in the 1-1/4" pipe from manifold to muffler. I plan to run a longer coolant hose from the manifold to the pipe, with an antisiphon valve at the top of the loop.

The current exhaust hose from muffler to transom is 1-1/2". It loops up the port bulkhead near the engine to the gunwale, then aft just under the toerail to loop midship at the transom and then down to the throughull outlet: 12.5 feet. Seems long to me. I'm wondering why I can't just go vertical from the muffler (I have 18") and then come along the inboard edge of the locker to angle down under the ignition panel and out more directly to the transom. That should cut off 4-5 feet, helping to reduce backpressure.

Any thoughts?

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"New" 1974 C&C 27 Mk II undergoing refit

#152 Re: General discussion » Help with new deck layout for running rigging hardware » 2008-09-24 20:34:45

Excellent, Thanks. The deck is now free of nearly all hardware to prep for painting, so I have the winter to think over revisions.


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"New" 1974 C&C 27 Mk II undergoing refit

#153 General discussion » Shaped keel pad » 2008-09-19 10:59:05

windyday
Replies: 0

Since buying this old Mark II in the spring, I've been worrying about how to revise the keel pad. The C&C 27 keel is rounded so that very little of the aft end of the keel sits flat on a flat wood keel pad. We blocked the forward part, but I still wasn't happy. A friend who is handy with a chainsaw donated a block of maple to the boat and shaped it for me. Today we craned the boat up to install the new pad, and I like it. Here it is:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/penguinfun/2871623362/


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"New" 1974 C&C 27 Mk II undergoing refit

#154 Re: General discussion » '74 Mk II refit progress » 2008-09-16 19:37:43

Marcus - good to have your experience with that. I'll let the glue dry a bit so it is less likely to clog the sander.  My new AC and DC panels  and Blue Sea 7650 switch/ACR have arrived, so I am keen to start building a cabinet there for them.


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"New" 1974 C&C 27 Mk II undergoing refit

#155 General discussion » '74 Mk II refit progress » 2008-09-15 20:36:39

windyday
Replies: 2

The refit is going very well. Cabin pretty much dismantled. Old wiring gone. Gathering parts. Bottom sodablasted and sanded. Original throughulls out. Topsides restored to original shiny gelcoat and mylar/decals applied (at least that's done). Now stripping off the deck fittings to check/replace them and prep the deck for painting. Impressed with the construction of this boat. The TopShop winter cover "tent" has been a boon.

It's the little things that are cause trouble. Like, I peeled off the original vinyl "wallpaper" on the bulkhead from where I removed the old electrical panels. The plywood is in excellent shape, but now has still-tacky glue embedded in it from the vinyl. I prowled the stores looking for a replacement white covering, either vinyl or solid, but no luck. I don't want to add more thickness. Anyone tried to prep that gummy surface for painting before?


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"New" 1974 C&C 27 Mk II undergoing refit

#156 Re: General discussion » Pulling an Atomic 4 » 2008-09-07 09:31:33

I am just about to do this and as usual find great advice from David W.

A question: the boat is on a trailer on the hard. Has anyone rigged a lifting device over the boat to get the engine up and to the ground? I may just call in the nearby crane operator.

I am thinking of using a basketball to push the engine up off the mounts, along with the strop and transmission tackle David suggests.

To get the cabinet support cross piece off from across the font of the engine, I had to cut through a screw that was inserted into the end grain of the cross piece from inside the cooler compartment. I thought the other end had a similar screw, but turns out it was just very neatly slotted into the cabinet on that side (starboard).

Update: I see in an archived post that David pointed out that cross-piece may provide athwartships support, keeping the port and starboard cabinets apart. I will temporarily replace it.

Update: New information came to light, so no need to pull the engine yet.  All is well.

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"New" 1974 C&C 27 Mk II undergoing refit

#157 Re: General discussion » Help with new deck layout for running rigging hardware » 2008-09-07 09:14:38

Perfect, Marcus, thanks. I would like to see some photos.

You just solved another problem for me: XAS vs XTS Spinlocks. Glad to hear the lesser priced model is adequate for the C&C 27.


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"New" 1974 C&C 27 Mk II undergoing refit

#158 General discussion » Help with new deck layout for running rigging hardware » 2008-09-05 23:34:23

windyday
Replies: 8

C&C 27 Mark II refit. To be used for around the cans and short to medium cruising.

Here is the current (original I think) running rigging deck hardware layout:
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/penguinfun/2832282227/">http://www.flickr.com/photos/penguinfun/2832282227/

I</a> will be removing all the deck hardware to paint the deck, so I want to redesign the running rigging deck hardware layout using Spinlock or Garhauer rope clutches with curved epoxy bases. My problem is figuring out what to salvage vs replace and how to lay out the controls, given I have not yet had the mast up in this boat to check out the existing running rigging.

I am considering using the existing two 3-sheave organizers (one each side) and installing a set of 3-line rope clutches on each side. The 1970's C&C 27 manual says the lines are 3/8" (= 9/5 mm) for the three halyards, boom vang, reefing line and spinnaker pole topping lift.

There are two small winches on each side of the coach roof, but seems to me that with the rope clutches I will only need one, so I could replace the forward one on each side with a rope clutch. And should also be able to get rid of the 3 cleats and 4 jam cleats on each side.

Possible layout:

Port:
Jib halyard.
Spinnaker pole topping lift.
Spinnaker pole downhaul<img src="emoticons/icon_question.gif" alt="" />

Stbd:
Main halyard.
Spinnaker halyard.
Reefing line or outhaul or boom vang.

That still leaves:
Two of: Reefing line or outhaul or boom vang.

And I need to consider the dodger I am ordering.

Thoughts?

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"New" 1974 C&C 27 Mk II undergoing refit
This looks like an opportunity for a new Black Arts page. Let's fire up those digital cameras and produce some deck layout photos. The one presented on Flickr is a good model, but add any views that would aid understanding. Please include descriptions of what's there (because it won't necessarily be obvious from photos), along with an appreciation of what works and what doesn't. Please use the photo submission address used in The Fleet. Thank you. - Admin

#159 Re: General discussion » Dodger thoughts? » 2008-09-02 20:58:33

Thanks - I contacted Sportech.

UPDATE: They referred me elsewhere, since their pattern does not accomodate coach head travellers.

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"New" 1974 C&C 27 Mk II undergoing refit

#160 General discussion » Dodger thoughts? » 2008-08-30 22:14:52

windyday
Replies: 4

We want a dodger for our Mark II:
1. Any suggestions for design elements/options/sources?
2. I like the Genco solution, and I see there are satisfied customers in the archives.
3. Seems to me that a welded handrail option is a good idea?
4. Is the material for the standard windows OK? (As opposed to the Lexan option).
5. Any other thoughts?
6. Is the extra brace necessary?
Thank you.

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"New" 1974 C&C 27 Mk II undergoing refit

#161 Re: General discussion » Boat Weight » 2008-08-14 19:44:35

From my reading and very limited experience, the brochure displacement weight (5500 lbs, I think) is likely less than the crane weight would be today, given added machinery, stores, maybe water in various places.

#162 Re: General discussion » Where to drill the rudder drain holes » 2008-08-12 20:27:20

Thanks John. a few weeks ago I drilled 7 holes a few inches aft of the rudder post, from about 1/2 way up to the bottom. (The boat is on the hard for a major refit ove the next year or so). The lowest hole that drained the most (just a dribble) was about 6 inches from the bottom. After a few weeks I filled the rest and left that one open, although it was no longer draining. Then I noticed weeping from two holes up: when I checked with a screwdriver, the epoxy plug was very thin and weeped a little water when I opened it back up.

So clearly there is no simple space in there. I look forward to any insights about how the original Mk I/II rudder is constructed.

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1974 C&C 27 Mk II in PEI

#163 Re: General discussion » Cost of Ownership... » 2008-08-01 10:34:31

A very general rule of thumb is to be prepared, over a decade, for an annual average of 10% of the initial cost of the boat. But of course that varies depending on local mooring, hauling and storage fees. I will be interested in what others say.


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1974 C&C 27 Mk II in PEI

#164 Re: General discussion » Rudder Grease cup rusted away » 2008-07-30 20:17:48

I wonder if South Shore Marine or Klacko know the specs.

I googled "C&C grease cup" and found this great page with lots of photos and hints: <a href="http://www.wbryant.com/StellaBoat/Projects/steering/zerk/zerk.htm">http://www.wbryant.com/StellaBoat/Projects/steering/zerk/zerk.htm</a>

Also: <a href="http://list.sailnet.net/read/messages?id=98575">http://list.sailnet.net/read/messages?id=98575</a>

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1974 C&C 27 Mk II in PEI

#165 Re: General discussion » Thetford or Sealand portable potty » 2008-07-28 07:13:32

rblade - thanks for the pointer to Alex's remarkable project. I can do that , but needed to be shown how. Never clicked that link because it was for a 30 - didn't realize how similar it is to the 27. Looks like a great solution.

To all:

Q1: how is a fibreglass tank for containing odours?

Q2: has anyone used the space in the C&C 27 locker in the port forward locker, outboard of the knotmeter and sounder thru hulls?

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1974 C&C 27 Mk II in PEI

#166 Re: General discussion » Refit: replacing manual bilge pump hose » 2008-07-21 05:36:01

Good ideas as usual, Dave, Thanks.


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1974 C&C 27 Mk II in PEI

#167 General discussion » Refit: replacing manual bilge pump hose » 2008-07-20 21:02:49

windyday
Replies: 5

I had to pull the smelly, old yellow corregated 1.5" ID manual bilge pump hose out of the bilge. To fit under the cabin sole where it comes forward from the engine space, the hose on a Mk II has to be compressed slightly. I removed the cabinetry to get my hands in, but still could not pull it out. Ended up cutting it there and pulling from both ends. I'll be cleaning out the bilge crud there somehow. Any suggestions for replacing with new 1.5" hose through that slight bottleneck?


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1974 C&C 27 Mk II in PEI

#168 General discussion » Thetford or Sealand portable potty » 2008-07-08 11:10:22

windyday
Replies: 3

After sitting staring for several days at the irregular empty space that used to be a head, contemplating either designing a wierd-shaped holding tank to replace that monster bladder, converting our V-berth freshwater tank to a holding tank (not a good idea in saltwater and unappealing anyway), or trying to engineer a holding tank into the V-berth, I am getting very interested in a Thetford or Sealand MSD III potty. I am beginning to warm up to the idea after reading all Peggy Hall's posts and other posters' experiences.

A Porta Potty (or Sealand alternative) like the MSD 465 can be plumbed through a Y valve and Whale manual pump for pumpout/pumpover and air vent if I really want to go that far. The 5-gallon tank is euqivalent to a standard 15 gallon holding tank because it uses less water/flush. I could convert all that empty space to usable cabinet space in the head, and glass over the toilet raw water intake throughull in the port V-berth locker. Quick disconnects are available for removing the cassette and replacing it with a spare, if need be. The overall cost is almost a third less than buying a new head and holding tank.

After 9 years with a fixed head/holding tank/macerator on the big boat I thought I might miss a full head, but right now this seems like a very attractive solution. Any experience with the MSD "portable" potties on C&C 27s?


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1974 C&C 27 Mk II in PEI

#169 General discussion » Got the holding tank out - Mk II » 2008-07-05 08:24:09

windyday
Replies: 0

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1;">I couldn't find a complete run-down on removal, so thought I'd record my experience.

<ol style="margin-top: 0in;" type="1">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1;">Removed the toilet, Y-valve and all plumbing hoses (all smelly and need replacing).</li>
<li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1;">Unscrewed and lifted out the vanity holding the sink. No need to remove the sink. Had a heck of a time with the 3 screws holding the fibreglass tab along the bottom of the inboard piece: the heads were buried in epoxy or paint. Tried to drill them off but they ended up just pulling out of the wood. No damage cosmetically.</li>
<li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1;">Unscrewed the two pieces of plywood shelf covering the tank space Those screws were painted too; took me two hours to get them out.</li>
<li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1;">The forward shelf piece came out easily, allowing access to the tank space. The aft shelf piece came loose but did not come out because the holding tank bladder neck comes up through a hole in that shelf.</li>
<li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1;">Six screws hold the cabinet wall, accessed from inside the tank space. I was able to unscrew the 3 screws holding the forward end of that wall, but not the 3 screws holding the aft end because the bladder was in the way. I ended up levering the wall toward me, prying out those three aft screws.</li>
<li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1;">The holding tank was very heavy, about &frac34; full. No sign of a leak in the past or now. The bladder was hard; not sure if that is age, or if there is a solid component inside the bladder? The tank was sitting on two pieces of faded lime green shag carpet (confirming the era). There was black mildew/mould between the bladder and the hull. (I was wearing a respirator.)</li>
<li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1;">The tank is a Jabsco Prototank by Protomarine Inc, Marine Recirculating System 38140-0000, 12 gallons.</li>
</ol>


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1974 C&C 27 Mk II in PEI

#170 Re: General discussion » C&C 27 through hulls revisted » 2008-07-04 11:26:57

Phew - got the first thruhull out - the head sink drain.  The original gate valve bronze was in excellent shape, but (a) it is a gate, (b) the gate was not closing fully and appears to be corroded, and (c) the sealant had become useless after 34 years.  Time for a new ball valve seacock on a modern thruhull.

The key to removal was a step wrench from Stright MacKay - best $38 spent so far on this refit. Once I found extender bars for the handle (10 stores later) and got the right alignment, it only took the first mate and I 5 minutes to get it undone and out.


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1974 C&C 27 Mk II in PEI

#171 General discussion » Stuffing box packing - 1/4" or 5/16"? » 2008-07-04 11:21:26

windyday
Replies: 8

Stuffing box packing - 1/4" or 5/16"? I know the formula comes out at 5/16", but the packing in the original was 1/4", and it seems easier to compress smaller to larger than compress too large to smaller. What are folks using on the C&C 27? (Size, not material - I made up my mind on that one for now). Thanks.


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1974 C&C 27 Mk II in PEI

#172 General discussion » C&C 27 through hulls revisted » 2008-06-29 11:08:28

windyday
Replies: 2

Just finished doing a careful inventory of all the throughulls on our "new" 1974 Mk II as part of its year-long refit.  Looks like most are original.  I'll need to do some revising, but I would also like to reduce the number of throughulls. Any thoughts about the following?

1. Removing the sounder transducer through-hull, glassing it over and using an in-hull transudcer instead. The old sounder is dead and needs replacing anyway. Looks like a no-brainer decision: I see others have reported sucess with C&C 27 in-hull transducers at that location (presuming I keep bubbles out of my closure). I've had great success installing in-hulls in my previous two boats, both using the Airmar kits that make it so easy.

2. Someone asked in an earlier thread about re-routing the cockpit drain underwater throughulls to above-water throughulls in the transom. I did not see an answer. C&C's designers must have had reasons for doing it the way they did, but it would be nice to have the peace of mind if it is safe to go the transom route, and it would be nice to get rid of the plumbing around the stuffing box/transmission, to free up some room to work.  Downsides to changing to the transom:
2a. No longer a direct route for water drainage: the bend in the hose could get clogged.
2b. Longer hose run.
2c. Water likes to go downhill, and nothing is more directly down than vertical.

3. I keep wondering how to consolidate the two sink and one toilet intake throughulls, but
3a. The sinks are too far apart to make the run practical, and on opposite sides of the boat.
3b. The toilet needs to suck seawater not contaminated by sink garbage, although the manual pump systems seem able to handle seaweed and sea life nicely.

4. Being a purist navigator, I want a speed log for STW to compare with GPS SOG, so that throughull stays.

5. The engine raw water throughull stays, of course. But that throughull looks original, is a gate, and the bore is narrowed a bit by years of seawater crystals, so it will be replaced.

Thanks for your thoughts.

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1974 C&C 27 Mk II in PEI

#173 Re: General discussion » C&C 27 Mk II and best prop Atomic 4? » 2008-06-26 19:49:11

Thanks Ken. How about drag while sailing? Before I posted I went all through Black Arts and searched every archived post, as well as discussions wiith sailors here and away -- not an easy decision. The choices seem to be:

1. Original 2-bladed RH 11x7.
2. A folding prop - David W likes the 12x7 Flexofold.
3. A feathering prop - A friend likes the Darglow Engineering Featherstream prop on his larger cruiser (they also sell the Felxfold). On his boat there is some propwalk, but I don't mind a little of that in a sailboat, just a matter of knowing its there and then working with it.
4. 3-bladed prop.
5. Different 2-bladed prop with better efficiencies than the original one.

The criteria to consider appear to be:
1. Improved reverse thrust.
2. Reduced propwalk in reverse.
3. Minimize drag sailing.
4. Efficient forward thrust/RPM/fuel consumption/hull speed combination.

ie, some physics, some magic.

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1974 C&C 27 Mk II in PEI

#174 General discussion » C&C 27 Mk II and best prop Atomic 4? » 2008-06-25 20:36:09

windyday
Replies: 8

What do folks think is the best prop for an Atomic 4 in a C&C 27 Mk II?

I'll have the shaft out by tonight (the coupling is moving nicely - yay! - but I need a few more washers to get the throw on the bolts), so now I'm thinking about whether to replace the apparently original 1973 right hand 2-blade 11-7 prop with one that is more efficient.


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1974 C&C 27 Mk II in PEI

#175 Re: General discussion » Cleaning out the C&C cove line » 2008-06-14 05:55:01

Got it done.  Learned as I went - had it worked out best for the last 10 feet. Here's precisely what worked for me:

1. 1.5" masking tape each side of the cove.
2. Duct tape on top of the masking tape. This combination nicely protected the gelcoat on either side of the cove when I scraped inside the cove, and prevented pink staining of the outside gelcoat.
3. Pretty much filled the cove with Interstrip (the paint was thick, red).
4. Waited 25 minutes (air temps about 15 C) until the paint was blistered.
5 Scooped out about 3/4 of the blistered paint and excess Interstrip with my converted apple corer.
6. Scoured most of the rest of the paint out with the 3M Counter Stripper pad.
7. Wiped up with a rag.
8. Removed the tapes.
9. Sanded the cove with 120 sandpaper to lift out the remaining bits of red paint on the edges and tidy up the gelcoat.
10. Wiped with Varsol.
11. Washed with boat soap.

I'm pleased with the result. I won't be putting paint back in that cove!


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1974 C&C 27 Mk II in PEI

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