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Before I start ripping things apart, I wondered if anyone has previous experience or advice relating to this: I have fairly new batteries in good condition. When I press the starter button, it usually, but not always, responds as it would with a low battery - the starter motor kicks in and turns over the engine a bit, then stops. If you release and repress the starter button, then the starter kicks in and turns over the engine normally and starts the engine properly. This process used to be occasional, but now is pretty well routine.
I am sure the batteries are fine - even after the boat sits for several weeks (no charger available), the batteries measure 12.2 or 12.3 volts. This process will occur almost at every start, even if the engine has been shut off for just a short time after having been run for a goodly long time and the battereies are "peaked right out".
So, is it more likely a bad starter button, loose connections somewhere, a bad solenoid, or someting else?
I welcome all advice. Thanks in advance.
Barry Oasis 1987 Mk V
Last edited by (2012-07-11 00:50:55)
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Use sand paper to clean the oxidation from all electrical connections under bolts in the system. Negative ground as well. If not helping, jump the ignition from behind the dash. A wire from #2 setting to #3, with key on. If better then change ignition. Solenoid is OK.
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Sony2000's suggestion worked for me. Two weeks ago, when battery 1 was selected to start the engine , I had a small grunt and then silence. With battery 2 selected the engine started at once. Both batteries were fully charged (12.3 volts )
I removed the battery connections to number 1, gave them a good sandpaper cleaning, and all is now well. I repeated this on number 2 for safety's sake.
Alan of SMOKE 1984 Mk V 002
Alan of SMOKE 1984 Mk V 002
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Thanks guys. I will give it a try!
Bary Oasis 1987 Mk V
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Be careful when cleaning contacts. If the connector is bare brass, you can rub away with emery paper all you like, but if the contact area is plated, it's best to go easy - the plating is there for a reason.
Also, if you have the time to hit a car-parts shop, you might ask what they recommend as a conductor-enhancer goo. The big name seems to be Stabilant.
The best description I could find is this, from an Audi-enthusiast site (and I should offer here that I haven't used the stuff, but have heard good of it). Google turns up lots of hits for people who sell the stuff. It may be overkill in this application, but if you have a recurrent problem...
"Use an electrical contact enhancer like Stabilant 22 or Stabilant 22A. Initially it is non-conductive and then switches to a conductor in the presence of electricity. This switching ability is set so that the material will remain non-conductive between adjacent contacts in a multiple connector, and yet enhance the conductivity of each connector. It's as if it had its own brain, and it provides a tenfold to a hundredfold increase in connector reliability."
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Last edited by (2012-07-06 11:58:54)
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
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I have cleaned all the connections I could find. Still have the same intermittent problem. I will keep looking for more connections. Am going to try bypassing the stater button itself to see if it is the problem. It is a sealed unit, so cannot be cleaned.
Barry
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My start mode on the key ignition failed to work. So just beside the key, I now have a starter button connected to #3 position wire, and a new wire over to the #2 key position. But since you have a diesel, I don't know if the starter button alone, would start the engine without the alarm sounding.
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Don't know. The starter won't work unless alarm is going - ie key on. Key switch is finicky too - got to jiggle it sometimes to get alarm going. Possible that may contribute. If jumping starter button doesn't help, I will try jumping the ignition switch. Sooner or later I will find the problem. Never a problem when the sails are up and the wind is blowing!!!!
Barry Oasis, 1987 Mk V
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In addition to the starter button and ignition key, your problem could be one of two other choices. Starter motor solenoid or Starter motor armature itself.
On my boat, it was sold to me with the disclosure that the batteries were going bad causing the problem you describe. Upon a more close examination it turned out not to be the case at all. When I have the ignition on and hit the starter button, I sometimes only get a click from the engine area. It sounds like the solenoid closing but not turning on the starter motor. It only does it sometimes so I just keep trying the starter button two or three times before the engine rolls over and starts the engine immediately. I hope to make it until fall when I can removed the starter motor/solenoid assembly and examine the issue more closely using a 12 volt battery in my shop. At that time, depending on the outcome of further analysis I will rebuild the motor and/or replace the solenoid. It could be either. To buy a new starter motor/solenoid from Yanmar costs over $700 USD....depending on local tax I don't believe the solenoid is sold separately?
John Lawrence
Northern Dancer, Mark V, 1986
Muscongus Cove, Maine
John Lawrence
Northern Dancer, Mark V, 1986
Pemaquid Harbor, Maine
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You described my problem exactly. Hope it doesn't turn out to be as costly as that. And that it doesn't decide to quit completely week after next when I am going out for 7 days!
Barry Oasis, 1987 Mk V
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It may be very simple. I have the Yanmar 1GM10 motor with key and push button start in my boat as well. I also have a battery charger that not only indicates voltage, but % charged as well. Therefore, for example, it may show 12-13v on your meter but it may only be 35% charged(which may not be enough to turn it over on the first crank.) Check your water level and try to find out what percent your battery is holding at that moment. I've had the same things that you described and my battery will start even without the alarm. That's when I know to run it on that battery for a while. I know this, or maybe ALL of this, may sound a bit condecending, but make sure you use pure distilled water to top off batteries. Well, that's all I got, and that's the remedy that cured my battery problems. I hope it's as easy for you.
Sincerley,
Joe Kiehm
K.I.S.S.(keep it simple, stupid)
C & C 27' MarkV
Hull #531
Milwaukee,WI.
I just purchased the Mark V Catrina out of Port Washington, WI. I was a J24 sailor for 10yrs. I did not race the boat except for the Queen's cup which is a overnight race accross Lake Michigan which I do solo. The rest of the time is used it to cruise with. I am now 44yrs. old and am tired of crouching down below. It was time for me to find a boat that I could stand up in down below and have an inboard engine. The Mark V hit the mark. I just purchased in January and have not sailed it yet, but I'm sure I will be VERY pleased with it. It's got everything I ever wanted without having to spend more money on a bigger slip. All I need is a cradle or some jack stands.
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I am both ignorant and cautious with all things electrical, so I need advise on batteries in general please.
I read that a battery can read 12.3 volts yet be only 35% charged. How do I know when that battery is fully charged? Is there some setting in my multi-meter that will tell me?
Thanks.
Alan of SMOKE 1984 Mk V 002
Alan of SMOKE 1984 Mk V 002
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Well, I am ignorant about the functions of a multimeter. All I usually use it for is continuity. You need a battery charger that has these two options. I got a compact one at Batteries Plus..........Priceless. It has helped me so much. They automaticly turn off when fully charged and eliminate haulin them damn things out to take them to where I bought them only to ask, "what's wrong with my battery?" THAT'S where I learned about the voltage VS. percent charged. Before you go out to purchase something, call someone who's business it is to know these things. I'm just a a "Joe Blow" weekend warrior fix it guy.
Sincerely,
Joe Kiehm
K.I.S.S.
1985 C & C MarkV
I just purchased the Mark V Catrina out of Port Washington, WI. I was a J24 sailor for 10yrs. I did not race the boat except for the Queen's cup which is a overnight race accross Lake Michigan which I do solo. The rest of the time is used it to cruise with. I am now 44yrs. old and am tired of crouching down below. It was time for me to find a boat that I could stand up in down below and have an inboard engine. The Mark V hit the mark. I just purchased in January and have not sailed it yet, but I'm sure I will be VERY pleased with it. It's got everything I ever wanted without having to spend more money on a bigger slip. All I need is a cradle or some jack stands.
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I have a ProMariner ProSport 2 battery charger which is programmed to charge one or both batteries on an as-needed basis. I plug it in a few times in the winter to avoid a frozen battery disaster, but the several chugs out and back to the race course each week keep both units charged during the sailing season.
I'll talk to The Battery Sell about the 12.3 volts on a 35% charged battery for clarification on this puzzle.
Alan of SMOKE 1984 Mk V 002
Alan of SMOKE 1984 Mk V 002
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Sounds like a good idea. Also, I've heard that if you have 1 (one) battery that's not keeping a charge, when you run in and out to the race course, the batteries try to even themselves out. Meaning, the battery that is low will draw from the battery that has a full charge when you run them on both. I would only run them on both if you were motoring more than 10mi. otherwise, the weak battery is always gonna draw from the strong battery on "both battery" switch.
I just purchased the Mark V Catrina out of Port Washington, WI. I was a J24 sailor for 10yrs. I did not race the boat except for the Queen's cup which is a overnight race accross Lake Michigan which I do solo. The rest of the time is used it to cruise with. I am now 44yrs. old and am tired of crouching down below. It was time for me to find a boat that I could stand up in down below and have an inboard engine. The Mark V hit the mark. I just purchased in January and have not sailed it yet, but I'm sure I will be VERY pleased with it. It's got everything I ever wanted without having to spend more money on a bigger slip. All I need is a cradle or some jack stands.
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If you believe the starter/selonoid is the problem, then from your description it is the starter, because the selonoid engages the starter but it doesn't act on the move. Aside from the connection to the 12 volts, you could check the amount remaining on the starter brushes. **The body of the starter is a ground through the bolts, and should have a good connection**.
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Update from original post. Cleaning all terminals I could reach did not help. I wired in a jumper from power supply cable terminal on starter motor to the ignition switch wire (which also has a terminal on the starter motor) with a little toggle switch in line. Using this toggle switch bypasses the press button starter button and resulted in perfect starts every time. Leads me to think it is a faulty starter button. Note: if you try this be aware of 2 things - because it is a diesel, using this toggle switch, even without the ignition being on will start the engine - all a diesel like this (no electronic injectors etc) needs to run is fuel and something to turn it over!!! Also, I learned the "sparking" way that turning off the main electric power switch DOES NOT CUT THE POWER TO THE STARTER MOTOR. Recommend disconnecting batteries before doing this!
Will update when I locate and instal a new starter switch.
Barry Oasis, 1987 Mk V
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