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Does this help? It's one of several owners' guides on the site.
http://www.edsonmarine.com/support/PDFs/planning/EB381SteeringGuide.pdf
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
A household toilet relies on siphoning action to clear the bowl and carry waste away. Siphoning won't tolerate much restriction, so the pipes have to be large. Heads rely on an evacuation pump to suck the contents from the bowl, a rather more direct-acting and fault-tolerant force, capable of transporting "things" despite the small pipe size. Also, "things" are about 50% water and are fairly flexible, a fascinating factoid that I learned from a government-funded test designed to identify low-flow toilets that do their job in one flush instead of two or three (which gave us the name of an inexpensive and top-performing low-flow toilet to replace a high-flow one that never flushed properly).
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
The toe rail is more than capable of supporting the load of a tackle used as a gybe preventer (the loads imposed by a lead block for a genoa could be much higher). I prefer to run a line from the upper mainsheet block attachment forward to a bow cleat if a preventer is required.
I'm not, however, a fan of such arrangements unless there are children on board who are too small to understand sails, or non-sailing guests who are too gormless to understand sailing. Reliance on preventers encourages sloth in the helmsman and the crew, who cease to monitor the wind and their surroundings in the mistaken belief that the whole issue has been taken care of. You're better off fitting a good masthead fly and paying attention to it as a means of preventing gybes.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Jim,
Re: your summary - Not quite right.
USHRF-PHRF C&C27Assoc C&COriginal
C&C 27-1 IB: Mark I inboard engine; C&C 1.
C&C 27-1 OB: Mark I outboard engine; C&C 1.
C&C 27-1 TM: Mark II tall mast; C&C 1
C&C 27-2 <914: Mark III (914=hull number) C&C 2.
C&C 27-2 +915: Mark IV (915=hull number): C&C 2.
C&C 27-3 IB: Mark V inboard engine; C&C 27 (or maybe Mk 3?)
C&C 27-3 OB: Mark V outboard engine; C&C 27 (or maybe Mk 3?)
C&C 27-3 SD: Mark V shoal draft (3'6" not 4'10"); C&C 27 (or maybe Mk 3?)
<div>I _think_ that's right, but the vagaries of what people call which boat what and when are just that, vague. However, if you look at data like the rig height on the USSailing table, it's easy to figure out which pigeon-hole your boat belongs in.</div>
<div>
Mike,</div>
<div>The photo of the two 27's is new and you can thank Larry Ricci of Options [on the left) for it. It's really lovely, isn't it. Neighbours on the production line and now neighbours on Chesapeake Bay.</div>
<div>
</div>
<div>You might also like this cover from RCYC's house mag, Kwasind. The Assoc secretary's boat is Kat's Paw I.</div>
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Windyday,
The designations we use in the Assoc are used primarily on Lake Ontario. The ones you cite refer, as C&C did, to the hull design as the primary designator. Your list, with my understanding of it using Assoc terms, would read:
C&C 27-1 IB: Mark I inboard engine [standard Mark I]
C&C 27-1 OB: Mark I inboard engine [standard Mark I with engine removed and replaced by an outboard]
C&C 27-1 TM: Mark II tall mast - the Mark 1A? [standard Mark II (your boat)]
C&C 27-2 +915: Mark III If 915 is hull number, then this would be Mark 3? [hulls #915 and up, a Mark IV]
C&C 27-2 <914: Mark III If 914 is hull number, then this would be Mark 2? [hulls below #915, a Mark III]
C&C 27-3 IB: Mark IV inboard engine [a Mark V with inboard]
C&C 27-3 OB: Mark IV outboard engine [a Mark V with outboard]
C&C 27-3 SD: Mark IV shoal draft? What does that mean? [just what it says, a Mk V with a keel of 3'6" instead of 4'10"]
Mike,
You may have read it here. C&C only really acknowledged the distinction between the Mk I hull (21'0" LWL) and the Mk II (22'10" LWL - though that includes an upper fairing of the rudder that makes the LWL sound longer than it effectively is). To C&C, our Mk II is a I with a taller rig, our Mk III is the first Mk II and our Mk IV is a II with an insignificantly modified J, a bit of hull reshaping and slightly different interior cosmetics (there was discussion of calling it a Landfall 27). What they called our Mk V is anyone's guess (but my guess would be either the Mk III or the MORC 27, which reflects its target).
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Towser has always had an approved rubber fuel line. At least, I assume so, because when I bought her, the rubber hose was indescribably, frighteningly ancient.
When she had an A4, we had a Lucas CAV fuel filter, whose cartridge I changed religiously. I removed the filter on the fuel pump because it was coarser than the CAV, so there didn't seem much point to it and it seemed a needless expense.
I now have a Racor on the diesel. Seems fine, but like the CAV, should have its cartridge changed every year, or it will gum up.
I have seen a number of Racors with see-through plastic bowls on A4's. Nice to be able to see if there is water in the bowl, but it's a really bad idea. Probably illegal, too. If there were a fire below, the plastic would melt and the fuel would be dumped into the bilge. Get the metal bowl model.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
I wouldn't put anything under my mast base. The shrouds would still fit, but the backstay is a titanic struggle every spring as it is.
The mast base with attachment points, described above, often was the owner's own base, to which the weldments were added. There are any number of marine metal outfitters near any sailing/boating town who'd be happy to do the job over the off-season. Removing the base involves pulling a few screws (4 or 6 - can't remember). Hardly a major undertaking. Or you could add a mounting base yourself, through-bolting a length of alloy L to the sides (which could be done without pulling the stick). You'd have to make sure you're getting a strong, hard alloy, though - not soft screen-door grade aluminum.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
For a time, someone around here was making a version of the mast base that included a length of alloy welded on at an angle of 45 degrees from the bottom edge. Large holes accommodated the turning blocks' shackles. A very nice do-it-yourself variation involved bolting a length of alloy L to either side of the base. This had the virtue of providing a flat surface that made stand-up springs more effective.
Originally I thought such an arrangement was essential, but I've managed without (but Towser has only one genoa halyard and one spinnaker halyard). The linked photo shows the mast base before the addition of a Boomkicker (a complication which makes it impossible to see anything). Clockwise from 3 o'clock are: 1. spinnaker and pole lift (shackled to a hole and to the cross-rod on the front of the base); 2. genoa halyard ( aft cross-rod); 3. vang fiddlebock and cunningham small triple (aft cross-rod); 4. outhaul; 5. main halyard (shackled to a hole). One useful addition is to run a line of shock cord around the mast and two forward blocks to hold them together against the mast when they're unloaded; this keeps them from falling over and getting into a bad angle. Similarly, another piece around the base of the small triple keeps the lower cunningham block upright; this keeps the cunningham line from fouling the main halyard block.
These blocks all lead fair to deck organizers just in front of the spray hood (a position chosen to minimize the angle of turn), then aft to clutches and cam cleats.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
I wouldn't bolt blocks to the deck; the loading from halyards is likely to be more than it's really built for. Plus your headliner is going to look like Swiss cheese. The mast base channel, on the other hand, is essentially part of the mast and well able to handle anything you throw at it. I would either look for blocks with a lower distance bail-to-sheave (which would lower the point of turn) or, as you suggest, use the bolts at the front and back of the channel as mounting points, as I have.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Look here. Around Toronto, most marine stores stock them, but because they're such a low-margin item, you normally find them in a box stuck in a back corner; you have to ask for them. Also, most locations stock an ivory colour that effectively matches the C&C headliner.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
You don't need to trash the headliner. Each of my organizers requires four holes, each of which was cut with a small holesaw (and is therefore neat) and plugged with a standard plastic insert, whose colour so well matches that of the headliner that you barely notice it.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Sorry - reading quickly, thinking slowly. Epoxy plugs and fender washers, shaped Starboard underpinnings. The organizers are relatively low-load compared to the tracks since all they do is deflect the lines 30 degrees or so and the loads are in shear rather than in tension (is that the right terminology? - I think you said you're an engineer and you'd know all this far better than I).
The Spinlock items look nice, but the deck organizers then available were inflexible. People have always used wood for mounting blocks, and it's a lot simpler to work, but I wanted something that didn't require maintenance.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Towser uses epoxy plugs and fender washers as detailed on the page on genoa tracks. So does Legacy.
Towser's double Spinlock rope clutches are mounted on Starboard bases (a type of plastic board) whose undersides were shaped with a router to match the curve of the deck.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
I'm not the principal. I have passed your offer on to the person concerned. I'm sure they'll call in due course.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
I think that the bottom of the ice box is below the top of the sink through-hull fitting, so the ice box won't drain that way. Moreover, you don't want your water running out whenever it feels like it - meltwater is cold and will help keep your ice box and its contents cold. You want to hang on to it until it's time to pack up and go home.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Read this, particularly "Using the Forum". Use the search function to look for previously answered questions. If you don't find answers, then it's time to make your contribution by asking the relevant question. Search. Ask. Answer. That's what the Forum is here for.
Also, it's silly just to ask me. There are others on this site who have different but equally interesting ideas about how to do things. Ask me - get one answer. Ask the Forum - get several answers with different perspectives (some of which may even be valid).
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Using the same pump for your sink freshwater and for your icebox melt? Yuck, filter or no filter ("Tasting notes include a soupcon of beer-bottle label, with that distinct mouth-feel of rotted lettuce - 95 points on the regurgitation scale"). For much the same price as a 3-way valve you can get another, clog-resistant pump (mine is loose on the hose, so we pull it out of the cabinet to pump).
Lighting under (or more accurately, above) the plastic covers of the track is a cute idea but there's no room.
Mounting curved track along the periphery of the deck? For considerable cash and labour, you'll have moved the sheeting position inboard perhaps 2 inches. To what purpose?
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
The ice box drains through a hose that runs through the front of the engine space to a pump under the sink that you're supposed to pump into the sink. Your pump and maybe even the hose may be missing. Having an ice box drain into the bilge is a bad idea. Get a new pump.
Read this page on genoa tracks. There is no reason why cutting the headliner should look like it was done with a chain saw.
Read this on deck layouts. You're joking about running self-tapping screws into the balsa, right? If not, read this on deck repairs, then re-read the info on the drill, fill, drill method. Don't put anything high-load on the companion spray-hood as it's only held on by screws. Elsewhere, machine screws backed up by fender washers seem to be sufficient.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
It's not true that I went for Whale foot pumps (if you're referring to me in that first post). I have a Whale double-action galley foot pump that is original to the boat - or at least it was there when I bought it.
I replaced the Whale Flipper in the head with another Flipper because it was recommended by a friend and because I didn't want to have to deal with the huge hole that I'd have had, had I chosen something else. Also, I couldn't think of a good place to put a double-action galley foot pump that wouldn't create other problems. And I did consider electric, but another friend said that small children and teenagers cannot be taught water discipline. As I then had smallish children, and as these were bound by some revolting process to become revolting teenagers (in both senses of the word), this seemed a compelling argument.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Text of a letter mailed today to the president of Aurora, Mr Richard Kittar <R.Kittar@auroramarine.com>.
Mr Richard Kittar,
Aurora Marine Industries Inc.
11-7015 Ordan Dr.
Mississauga, Ontario
L5T 1Y2
Sir,
Of late, I have received a number of e-mails from the Aurora Marine Club, an entity that purports to offer advice on cleaning my boat. I am quite happy with my boat-cleaning processes, so I have on two occasions attempted to unsubscribe from your mailing list. On both occasions, I’ve been told that my address is not on your list of subscribers, so I cannot be unsubscribed.
Now this is an address that I don’t give out, so it must have been obtained illicitly, or my mailbox is being accessed by some subterfuge. That I cannot unsubscribe indicates to me that some sort of e-mail ploy that is not specific to my name is being used.
I regard this as highly discreditable conduct, unworthy of any enterprise and certainly unworthy of any company with hopes of selling its products to me or my friends. Again, I’m not alone; as one of Forum participant says, “I will never buy from anyone who spams.” So, right now you are hurting your business and the name of your business – people don't forget, and any blip in sales is far overshadowed by the damage you are doing to your reputation.
Stop the spamming and improve your unsubscribe process, and do it now, please. The alternative is that I, and I expect many others, will approach our preferred boating suppliers (I use three adjacent to the club launch station on Queen’s Quay East as well as the club chandlery) to explain what you are doing, and why we intend never to buy your products.
Yours, sincerely annoyed,
David Weatherston
cc: C&C 27 Association Forum
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Hole sizes should be standard at 2 1/16", so that's not an issue. Wiring is also simple if you're replacing gauge with like gauge. However (there's always a catch), it's not always a great idea to mix senders (the float, sensor or what-have-you that acquires the info that the gauge displays). Some work, some don't. The originals were Stewart Warner (at least they were on my boat) and I _think_ the contemporary ones are compatible with old senders. But you might write S-W and ask them.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
It sounds as if you're doing the right things, but you might find useful suggestions on maintenance on the Edson Marine site - they were C&C's main supplier. I wouldn't replace anything that isn't visibly deficient. The wire is the obvious wear item, so I'd run a cloth along it to locate frayed strands. If you don't find any, leave it alone other than light re-greasing.
In my own experience, I found that the worst thing one can do is allow the cables to become loose; they will then jump the sheaves, leaving you with no steering at the worst possible moment.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Tell them. That's three of us. Remember the maxim in an early James Bond (written by a man who really did work in wartime counter-intelligence) - "Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, three times is enemy action."
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Does anyone know of a Mk II mast for sale? Perhaps from a boat that was destroyed or parted out for whatever reason?
Thanks
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
> I never considered the association as being related to the problem. You guys run a tight ship.
Thank you for saying so. Given what a friend you've been to the Assoc, I didn't think there was any implication. But for suspicious minds, I just wanted to get that right out in the open, that not only do we not sell names, we work to protect them according to a best practices paper that came out of MIT a few years back (I'd link it but I can't find it off the bat and tomorrow's a regatta).
My mother always said not to be too fussy about what you drink, because you've got to give your immune system some sparring partners on a regular basis, but I'm still not crazy about the water in my tank either.
Regards,
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Update - got an 'invitation' from Aurora Marine Club on an address that's never used for boat stuff. Can't unsubscribe because their site says it doesn't recognize my address. Oh, well, I'll mark it spam and I'll never see it again.
