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I've done this twice (wrecked the first replacement hose while doing other work). What made it slightly easier was clearing out the rubbish and smoothing out the rough edges of glass that I could reach. We then tied line to the hose end in a bridle arrangement (to make the pull as centred as possible) and passed it through from under the engine to the bilge. We then simultaneously pushed on the hose and pulled the line. An alternating push/pull/wiggle helped.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
SPINNAKERS & HEADSAILS
J JC LP SPL WPL Spin Max Girth
MARK V 10.08 10.08 15.62 (155%) 10.08 12.50 18.14 (180%)
(Can't make the columns line up without a lot of fuss, but the relationships should be fairly clear.)
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Thought on "the following":
You are making work for yourself.
1. Installing an in-hull transducer makes absolute sense if there's no hole already. Glassing the old hole then installing an in-hull sounds like a task that the government would invent -- the ten minute task of replacing a through-hull transducer suddenly has ballooned to two days. How many boats are sunk every year by blown transducers?
2. All of your objections are valid, plus you're glassing holes again that could easily be filled with nice safe & secure new through-hulls. All you need in addition are new drain hoses and you're fire-proof for twenty years.
3. You could combine the head sink drain and toilet intake. That saves a hole in the hull and one seacock, but I'd hate to try to do glasswork inside that cabinet.
Overall, my preference would be to replace the gate valves that you probably have throughout with modern seacocks. As to the rest, either save your energy or bend your energies to more productive ends. I don't wish to sound abrupt about your obvious desire to improve the boat, but there is quite enough to do in restoring a boat without in the process trying to redesign things that already work reasonably well.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Ken,
Your Indigo is recorded on the Props page and it was clear that you were referring to someone else's prop, so no clarification about Santiva is necessary.
But to get back to the issue of prop choice -- Racing success is not really the subject at hand (though it has to be said that any geared prop is less than the ultimate choice, as they have a larger cross-section than pre-gearing Martecs and Michigans). Nor have we really delved into the issue of performance ahead, except inasmuch as there are a variety of opinions about the correct diameter and pitch for any given make; doing a full analysis of performance ahead for different makes, including issues like fuel consumption or other measures of prop efficiency, would really stretch our interest level (we are, after all, sailors).
Where choice really seems to come in to play for most of us are the related issues of prop-walk and reverse thrust, those two intertwined forces that make us look like masters or victims of the art of docking and undocking. I've listened to a litany of complaints about the Gori previously mentioned. On the other hand, I've been favourably impressed by my Flexofold's behaviour ahead and astern (one of the club's riggers recently commented that Towser manoeuvres like a tugboat, which seems to have been meant as a compliment). It's probably not as good performance under power as could be achieved with a solid prop, but sailboats with solid props always feel a bit unbalanced under sail to me, and sail, after all, is what we're here for.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Our friends on Kat's Paw I have a Gori and they hate it. Scads of prop walk without any noticeable ability to reverse. I had a look at the web site and they look no different from the props I remember from 25 years ago - which means they're the same PITA props KP has. Their geared blades were a revelation a quarter century ago, but the world has passed them by.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Try South Shore Yachts (in Links & Contacts) and Klacko Spars <http://www.klackospars.com/index.html >. South Shore has lots of C&C parts and Klacko was the in-house supplier of metalwork for the C&C Custom Div.
Please let us know how it works out.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
It is possible that the Y8 uses an LH prop, but it isn't very likely. All the props in our prop collection are RH.
I can't give you details on the Y8, but generally, reverse gear is intended for brief usage -- a 'reverse out of slip for a minute, shift into forward, motor for an hour, reverse into slip' type of relationship. It's not intended for continuous duty.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
I have one each side, just aft of the maximum thickness and just before the blade starts to taper to the bottom. This position is dictated primarily by an area of delamination, but I think it would be a reasonable spot even if there were no delamination at that point. I don't think it's necessary to make a vent hole above; the water seems to find its way out.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
If the heads of the machine screws are buried under plugs, can you not draw the plugs? Taking the plug out bit by bit with a really sharp, narrow chisel creates the least risk of damaging the surrounding wood, in my experience.) Many marine stores sell replacement plugs or you can make your own if you have some teak, a plug cutter and access to a drill press (don't try with a hand-held drill).
Also, if the forward ones are loose, I'd be very suspicious of the others and their potential for allowing water into the balsa core - handrails do seem to be the main point of entry. A date with someone who knows how to read a moisture meter might be in order, both for the areas around the loose bolts and the ones that have given no apparent trouble.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
I second the suggestion about posting the question on Don Moyer's site to find out if the noise is significant (A4's do make a whining, whirring sound in reverse).
As to the thrust bearing idea, I think you might simply be deferring the problem, and causing another one in the bargain. The p-bracket, what you call the cutless bearing hanger, isn't really set up to handle significant loads, certainly not a thrust load. Look at the attachment point inside the hull and you'll see what I mean. There's no structure there and the hull isn't even thickened much at that point. The result would be hull flexing, which would put the p-bracket out of alignment with the shaft, which would erode one or both.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
I'm not suggesting that what you saw was attractive or practical - just that a sole material that is easy to clean and attractive would make more sense than teak-&-holly ply, which looks pretty but is a skating rink when wet, and it makes way more sense than an ugly imitation of teak-&-holly ply, which is what the Hunter material sounds like.
As an aside (another useless factoid), the Hunter material would actually be a bad imitation of a poor imitation, since teak-&-holly ply is merely a visual imitation of a real teak-&-holly sole, in which the holly strips are slightly raised and left unvarnished, so as to provide traction even when wet.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Just to be clear, I don't have a problem with modern materials particularly when they offer improved functions, so a laminate sole, particularly an easy-clean, non-skid sole is right up my alley. Teak-&-tape sounds like the worst of both worlds - probably slippery (a problem compounded by the fact that most of the cruising pigs I've seen in recent years have inadequate handholds below) and bound to look vile as soon as the tape starts to let go.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Packard (1930): "The quality is remembered long after the price is forgotten."
Deming & Crosby (1970): "Quality Is Free"
Everyone (2000+): "Built to a price, not to a standard."
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Your sage person is right. See http://www.noahsboatbuilding.com/noahs/AMAZING/searchresult.asp?CartId={E40780EVEREST9E-BD17-41B6-83E2-6BB2F2B2207F}> Teak & holly sole.
I replaced mine because the previous owner had walked around down below wearing golf shoes (or something similar). I coated the ply with a penetrating epoxy and screwed it down (as per orig). I had the original as a template, which helped immeasurably. If you do it, make a pattern from cheap fir ply -- this laminate is expensive and you don't want to make mistakes. I cut the replacement off at the half-bulkheads to the galley, replacing the t&h with plastic mat that is typically used to cover the cockpit sole. This looks good, is non-skid and drains away any water that gets below.
That said, I wouldn't have done the job if I hadn't had that ruined original to deal with (and the holes it left when removed). Varnished teak-&-holly is slippery and water can be trapped underneath when it comes down the companion. It's a triumph of interior decoration over good sense.
I was aboard a Mk I many years ago for which the owner had bought a small oriental rug that just fitted the walk area between the dinette and settee. He rolled it up when sailing. It looked great and yet he still had the benefit of the non-skid fibreglass sole when underway.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Through the magic of Google, a manual scanned by Episcopal (aka Anglican) Sea Scouts somewhere in Texas:
http://www.ship468.org/boats/Catalina30/YSM12/index.htm
(It comes as a bit of a surprise that they have Sea Scouts let alone Anglicans in Texas. I would have expected something more like Concealed Handgun Scouts working out of a church that preaches polygamy for the faithful and swift execution for everyone else.)
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
The one I saw, that I was assured was Monel, looked rather like unpolished bronze. It was dark brown.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Inspect your tank carefully before you decide it's too old and discard it. A few C&C's of that vintage have Monel tanks, which are highly resistant to corrosion (I've only seen one, which was round like yours, but have heard reports of others). If it is Monel, drain it, pull the sender and inspect the inside surfaces with a borescope. If it's steel, pull it out and replace it no matter what it looks like.
Comments on the difficulty of removal applied to the rectangular tank. You'll have to measure yours to find out. If it is just a hair too wide, it would be possible to stealth-widen the opening by removing the teak surround. The glass could then be cut back on both sides almost to the outside of the surround, which would give you another 1 1/2" or so; once the teak is back in place, no one would see the cut area.
The approved replacement is plastic (see http://www.tempoproducts.com/); they're cheap and they're sufficiently fire-resistant to gain regulatory approval. Scott Schoeler suggests that they would be made more fire-resistant if there is a continuous piece of plywood between the tank and the engine (instead of the half-height piece there now).
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
You could buy some sheet rubber and try making new inlet and outlet valves but that would leave you with an old bellows that may have problems you can't see yet. Primary safety equipment is no place to skimp. Get the rebuild kit. Rx for a pump that blows - about $60, I think (later: confirmed). Been there; works like a charm.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Sorry to lose you, but school doesn't go on forever (an acquaintance managed to defer his thesis for almost 30 years but that's kind of unusual). Swing by when school's out and you're ready to join this particular madding crowd again.
Not 'good-bye' but 'au revoir'.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Prying things up can sometimes pull off gelcoat. If this plate is stuck down with 5200 adhesive, you can break it with acetone (but don't let it run all over the place and particularly keep it away from plexiglass). Another way to release something stuck down with adhesive or tenacious bedding compound is to get a piece of fine wire under an edge, then pull it between the object and whatever it's stuck to.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
You don't really need a block (think of all that weight & windage!). Unless you absolutely insist on raising and lowering your burgee with blinding speed, an eyestrap that's well rounded so as not to chafe the line is sufficient.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
If you have to fight a traveller just to haul it to weather, you won't play it in the gusts. If you don't play it in the gusts, you won't stay on your feet and if you don't stay on your feet, you won't go.
Your Schaeffer traveller may look alright, but clearly it's beyond its best-by date. You won't regret replacing it with Harken.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
For that matter, for making dams, you don't need West epoxy -- hardware store 10-minute stuff will do. Make your dam with a $5 tube of Lepage's to keep the good stuff from running down into the bilge and then settle down to the heart of the repair.
Fast-setting epoxy goes off so fast that you could probably make a collar out of celluloid or an yogourt pot that fit tightly inside the rudder-stock opening, then form a thin dam up against that. The epoxy won't stick to celluloid or yogourt-pot plastic, so you'll have a very slick, precise surface with minimal need for sanding or grinding. One of the West people made a very precise form by inflating an ordinary balloon inside a cavity -- he inflated it to just the right degree that it directed the epoxy into exactly the shape he wanted.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
The best material i've found for making dams is fast-curing epoxy. West Fast Hardened epoxy goes off in about 10 minutes, so you've just got time to mix it, thicken it and form a dam before it starts to thicken. That's fast enough that you can sit and watch to make sure everything stays where it should while it hardens. Then you can take your time gooping around with normally hardened epoxy without worrying about it all running away.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
A below-decks tiller pilot would be nice, but it's bound to be rather expensive. Because they're working with a shorter lever arm, the below-deck units have to be more powerful and tend to be quite expensive, plus they need a comparably strong structure to support them. Fitting an autopilot needn't be a major undertaking. When this subject last came up, one fellow talked about how he'd positioned his tiller correctly for an autopilot simply by wedging the tiller up a bit, a low-cost, virtually no-hassle solution. If that doesn't appeal, there are all manner of accessory brackets and fittings to bridge any gaps.
As I said before, we'll put some photos of autopilot installations up soon. If anyone has any photos of creative solutions they'd like to pass on, use the address in The Fleet.
On consideration, I have to say I think that extending the rudder post is an expensive solution in search of a problem that can be solved in other, less involved ways. Not only do you have to extend the post, you have to figure out some way of positioning the tiller horizontally, as the original setup relies the tiller fitting resting on the sole casting for positioning. Moreover, I don't like tiller-heads that are raised off the cockpit sole -- they tend to remove too much flesh from shins.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV