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My personal investigation was simple, even simple-minded. I knew from Ralph Ainslie's contribution to the Black Arts pages on Hyperion's engine that the Yanmar engines were a close match in size and form to the A4, that Ralph had had little difficulty in installing the engine and that it was reasonably priced. I also knew Yanmar as being long-lived engines with good support by the Toronto-area distributor, both for boat builders and for individuals.
Once I established that the current 2YM15 engine (see http://www.yanmarmarine.com/products/pdf/GM_YM/2YM15_TechData.pdf ) was effectively the same size and configuration, the choice was quite simple. I was also assured that my 7/8" shaft would be fine and that I would not need a new one. The prop is an open question; won't decide that until we're in the water.
Much of what I found replicates what Ralph learned. The engine requires wider angle irons on top of the fibreglass bed, raised about 5/8" above the level of the old beds. Yanmar's standard L exhaust doesn't work, so we're rigging a replacement now (I'll probably post some pics as an addendum to Ralph's photos when we're done). The old s/s pot watertrap doesn't meet Yanmar specs, so we're putting in a Vetus watertrap. Ralph made a stainless steel exhaust riser, but I think we're just going to loop the hose up high in the stern. A siphon break is tbd.
One surprise is that the engine is much shorter than an A4 (duh), so it's had to be moved a bit aft. The remaining inch that it couldn't be moved has been bridged by a DriveSaver coupling.
The instrument panel (tach, key, several idiot lights) is smaller than the original panel, so we put some black plastic over the original hole. Wiring is via a harness with plugs.
Throttle and shift will be via the original Morse levers. A minor issue here is that the Yanmar shift is from a bracket on top of the engine to a lever near the bottom of the transmission (in other words, up and down) so the shift cable has to make a 90-degree turn. The heavy shift cable required to handle an A4 transmission won't make that turn in less than about a 4-ft radius, so we're modifying the Morse gear slightly to use a second, more flexible throttle cable for shifting (you can shift the Yanmar with a finger-tip, so this cable is more than man enough for the task).
The tank is getting a new return lineand the fuel line will have a Racor to replace the old CAV filter. Nastiest task so far has been pumping the old gas out of the tank; I hate the smell of gasoline.
I think that's it. As I said, once we're finished, I'll probably add some pics to Ralph's where my installation differs. Any more questions, let me know.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
I answered a similar question under "Buying Mk III" a while back, so I will try not to repeat the points addressed there, most of which were about delaminating decks and worn-out gear. I forgot to mention that one boat I looked at had a crack in the main bulkhead above the passageway; I was told this is not uncommon, though I've only seen it once.
Fittings for a chute: pole, C$500; masthead block, linestopper & halyard, C$300; pole lift & downhaul, associated camcleats, C$350; sheet & guy, associated blocks, $250. I haven't given a mast track and car, since most boats I've seen have them (though the car is often sized for a whisker pole rather than a chute), nor have I priced winches as the winches and layout preferences are so varied (on our boat, for instance, we handle a chute with halyard winches, which are the old sheet winches).
There's nothing wrong with an A4 in good condition. Most of the people I know with A4's are very happy with them; they are quieter and smoother than all early diesels and many contemporary ones, if considerably thirstier. Do not let anyone tell you they are dangerous; in a lifetime of boating, I've only had direct experience of one gas-powered boat blowing up and that was the result of a union dispute leading to the placement of a small quantity of dynamite next to the gas tank (Oakville, ON, about 1966, made a bang that impressed everyone in town but to everyone's astonishment, didn't injure anyone seriously).
A4's in poor condition are a pain. Plus they are getting old; mine was running beautifully 3 years after a rebuild when suddenly it started showing water in the oil. It is being replaced by a diesel as I write.
I've never seen the crack you mention, so I will leave it to others to comment.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
One of the privileges of membership in the C&C 27 Association is no-extra-charge access to a .pdf copy of the manual (initial copy will be circa 1980 - variants will appear as they are identified, but we don't expect much in the way of substantive differences). The manual is currently in preparation (should be ready in about 2 weeks). In the interim, individual pages will be available on request.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Let me say upfront that this does not sound like a diamond in the rough, a boat that just needs some TLC. It sounds like a potential disaster area. The broker sounds like he's all too aware of it, a man who wants to move the goods, but doesn't want to associate himself too closely with the sale. Why doesn't he want you to survey it? Because he knows the boat is either a genuine write-off or a project boat for someone who has done the work before and understands what he is getting into. No survey , no sale - and any survey should include engine, rig and sails.
My reading of the major points you mention: <ul><li>Absence of blisters is not in itself a recommendation. 27's don't seem particularly prone to them. Patching of the gelcoat (the five spots) may only mean that the owner was careless in the use of fenders; my boat has several patches on it and they are superficial. Grounding and drying out might rough up the keel and the hull at the waterline (see the picture of Lark in Tales to see how the boat might lie if dried out). Where you want to look is inside, which is difficult to do because of interior furniture. However, if damage has propagated through the laminate to show up inside, it's much more serious.
<li>The separated tabbing of the bulkhead is of greater concern. Three possibilities: an error in the factory is possible in which case the whole boat is suspect; the bulkhead is rotten and has released the tabbing, or the boat has been allowed to pound against a dock or rocks, thus releasing the tabbing. Any of these constitutes a "don't walk away - run" situation.
<li>Crazing may be cosmetic, or it may be an indication of underlying weakness (see the pictures of Critical Path's deck in Black Arts. A moisture meter, read by an experienced surveyor, will tell one from the other. More alarming is the moved chain plate. Why was it moved? What is it attached to now?
<li>Let's presume the engine and sails have had the same careful care as the cushions. Cushions, $2,500. Sails, $4,000. Engine $3,000 to rebuild, $7,000 to replace. Mike is right that things can be replaced, but if you end up replacing too many items, you could end up paying a lot more than the boat will ever be worth.</ul>At this point, ask yourself, "do I want a boat with serious structural problems that will sit in my drive for a couple of years while I struggle with it?", or "do I want a boat that's a bit shabby but that I can sail now while improving it with masses of elbow grease?" The boat you're looking at now might show poorly but have good bones, but I suspect it shows poorly because it has been damaged, then "repaired" by someone who didn't know what he was doing.
Nearly 1,000 27's were built and there's bound to be an affordable good one out there somewhere. So far, all you've invested in this boat is a long drive. Drop it and keep looking.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Well done, Dave - a 4,000 mile "distance diagnosis".
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
There are a couple of things I would do first, one being a mental exercise and the other being hands-on investigation. First, ask yourself, what did it sound like before? When did you notice the noise? Was it a sudden change or did it sneak up on you? Your prop clearance is small, but if it didn't bother you before, it's not the problem unless you changed something inside the hull. If that analysis doesn't give you some solid answers, think about what's changed in the period in which you noticed the noise.
If it happened right after you had the engine and shaft work done 18 months ago, go back to the guys who did your work and show them the problem. If they don't help, hunt down the best marine mechanic in the district (note "marine mechanic" - accept no substitutes) and pay him what you may consider an outrageous amount of money to diagnose and fix the problem. Some mechanics are idiots and thieves, but good mechanics have, in seconds, fixed problems that have bedevilled me through hours of blundering amateur poking and prodding.
As to the hands-on part, if you decide not to call in a mechanic (and you may want to do some of this before you call the mechanic):
An engine guy taught me that the first thing to look at is whatever you've been messing with recently. New cutlass bearing, prop shaft and engine mounts? Check them first.
<ul><li>Run the engine at various speeds with the shaft engaged, then uncouple the shaft and do it again; get a sense of the sound compared with the sound made with the shaft in place. That may give you a sense of the source.
<li>Check the mounts - are they secure?
<li>Check the alignment (bad alignment makes a shocking amount of sound and vibration and thus would be my first guess as the source).
<li>Haul the boat and check the p-bracket, the cutless bearing and the shaft (you may have to pull it and get a machine shop to check it for true - bad alignment can throw a shaft out).</ul>
Good luck. (Oh, and from what I've heard from a former owner, a Trapper is more like a Mark I with a quarterberth instead of an icebox - check the dimensions in Evolution and foil shapes against those shown in Guide to Marks if you're interested.)
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
PHRF-LO has just issued the following, which may affect your current rating or your sail purchase decisions:
"On Saturday April 2, 2005, Central Council passed a motion to change the maximum
penalties for the Genoa and Spinnaker, effective January 1, 2006.
The maximum allowable luff perpendicular without penalty on a genoa will be 155% of
J. Currently 153%.
The maximum allowable midgirth, without penalty, on a spinnaker will be 180% of J.
Currently 183%.
Any spinnaker built before January 1, 2006 is grandfathered for the life of the sail.
Intrinsic in this motion is the understanding that all spinnaker and genoa penalty
parameters will be adjusted accordingly."
For more information, consult your local handicapper.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Have a look at a thread called "Deck Layout (MkV) The fast set-up?" which includes a post by a fellow named Frank Marsden, who has developed a neat setup for single-line reefing. It includes a long description and photos. Food for thought. We haven't heard from Frank for a while, so we've not had any extended-use comments, but it's definitely worth a look.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Installation is simple: two wires to the terminals of your battery switch. The Blue Sea instructions (which are on the site at http://www.bluesea.com/product.asp?Product_Id=53476&d_Id=7458&l1=7458&l2=) look potentially a bit more complex because it can do more, but you can just do the two-wire job if you want.
Operation is automatic. When the alternator kicks in, it produces voltage greater than that of a battery. The combiner senses voltage at a charging level and opens the path to the other battery. Once the alternator stops producing, voltage quickly drops back to battery level and the path closes. As a friend once said in another context, "It's so simple, even the most imaginative engineer couldn't screw it up."
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
For what it's worth, here is my setup:
I have a #1/#2 battery switch connecting to 1. an automotive cranking battery (delivers high initial current, low sustainability); 2. a deep cycle battery (moderate cranking ability, immune to effects of deep discharge).
We always start on #1 (that's what that battery is designed for); starting on "both" is done rarely, when the starting battery is low - it's usually a sign that a new starting battery is called for.
Also in circuit is an analogue voltage meter (utterly useless other than as an on/off indicator - must replace) and a battery combiner. The combiner does what the old battery isolator diodes were supposed to do, without the voltage drop and other complications. It senses when the alternator is producing charging current and directs current to both batteries, regardless of the battery switch position, but does not allow current to flow between the batteries. As a bonus, if I need to charge the batteries, I can simply connect the battery charger to the back of the battery switch and the combiner directs power to whichever battery needs it. It really does work as advertised and is a marvellous convenience for about $80US (West doesn't seem to sell mine any more, but the manufacturer is selling off his stock at http://www.yandina.com/index.htm and Blue Sea has an "Auto Charge Relay" for that price).
I used to buy premium batteries (Surrettes) but have been convinced that: a) all batteries are dramatically better than 10 years ago; b) our 6-month layup is the worst enemy of all batteries, premium or cheaper, so I might as well get inexpensive ones with the best warranty. Canadian Tire has a superb, no-hassle guarantee, so that's what I buy (but if I were sailing year-round, I'd probably buy Surrettes again).
I also bought a digital tester (measuring in hundredths of a volt) from Cdn Tire for under $20 (can't remember exactly). I compared it with readings from an expensive tester (measuring in thousandths of a volt) and it was on the money. I keep it in a Ziploc bag on the boat and my only regret is not having bought one for home.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Death, taxes, water in your rudder. Get used to them. Some of the repair shops around here used to 'seal' rudders, but now they won't guarantee to keep the water out.
Here, we all drill a hole in the bottom of the rudder at haulout to let the water out through fall. For myself, I patch the same hole every year with 5-min epoxy, but some people put in a screw with a bit of bedding compound or 5200. Presumably a past owner failed to do this with your rudder and it froze then split.
If it were not for the split, I'd just fill the holes and resolve to open one of them in the fall. The split may or may not be an issue. If you clamp the split closed and tap the rudder, does it sound hollow? How big an area sounds hollow? If the hollow area is not too big, consider fixing the split and pouring enough West epoxy into the top of the rudder to fill the void. This may be all that is needed to fix the problem.
If you are not comfortable using your own judgement in the matter, dismount the rudder and take it to a reputable repair facility.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
You're going to lose a sheeting option, which you may or may not care about (but that mid-point is just about where you want to put a snatch block on a reach). In addition, midship cleats are notorious for fouling sheets, so you're going to have to concoct some sort of cover that will prevent this.
One of my neighbours had foldup cleats that mount on the deck - I'm sorry I don't know who makes them but all the Toronto stores have them, so your local people probably do, too. You can see them in Black Arts >> Genoa Tracks >> Legacy's tracks 2 (look on the full size pic).
On a purely personal note, I feel that it's not a good idea to make non-reversible changes to a boat like this unless there's a very good reason for it. Anything that makes a boat less of a standard 27 tends to compromise its resale value.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
[Later: was at Genco - The flip up cleats are primarily for docks, but the nice thing about them is that because they fold flat, they won't foul your sheets. Also see them here:
http://www.dockedge.com/products/dockaccessories/cleats/2603W-F.asp
Genco prices, 6" $26.95 8" $42.95.]
That you are seeing grey sticky blobs does not mean that you are about to see leaks. In the early eighties, I helped a friend snug up the toerail of his leaking, year-old 34 (successfully) and at the end of it, we were both covered in the stuff. C&C obviously erred on the side of excess there.
You can start worrying when the deck and hull flange are tightly squeezed together and no more goop comes out.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Correct me if I'm wrong, but your question about the hull/deck joint remaining intact seems to indicates that you want to re-bed the toerail to cure your leaks.
That won't help.
What you have to do to cure your leaks is remove the toerail, pry open the hull/deck joint and re-bed the mating surfaces. The toerail is a stiffening element in the hull/deck joint, but it does nothing to keep the water out.
Take a look at the .pdf of the hull/deck joint on the Mk V on the Sea Change page. Note that the bedding compound is shown only between the hull flange and the deck, not between the deck and the toerail. The Mk V used an outward-turning flange on the hull for cost reasons, but the principle is the same as on the older boats with the inward-turning flange - Tremco tape is squeezed between the hull flange and the deck by the machine screws with the toerail acting as a monster washer on top and conventional washers underneath. C&C put Tremco tape under the toerail in the original boats, but by the time the Mark V came out, was no longer bothering to do so.
Therefore, to cure your leaks, you will have to remove the toerail, pry open the hull/deck joint, insert your chosen goop and re-assemble the whole mess.
As to your other questions, I can give you information from which you may be able to deduce complete answers.
Can you do this job afloat? I don't know for sure - partial toerail removals are common after collisions and I've seen four or five jobs in progress, but on the Lakes, our boats are on land for 6 months of the year, so that's when we do work like a full removal. Therefore the only full removals I've seen have been on land, but I suggest the answer is 'yes, you can' because there didn't seem to be much distortion of the boat in a cradle when the toerails were off (and on one job I witnessed, both sides were done simultaneously). Since a boat is more evenly supported in the water than in a cradle, there should be little or no distortion. All you need to do is make sure you have good access from the dock.
Should you slacken the rigging? The boat will change shape a bit while the rail is off, and you don't want the tension of the rig to increase the distortion, so I'd be inclined to back off a few turns.
Can you use a material other than Tremco? I have a friend who did her C&C 33 with 5200 and I have heard no complaints after 2 years. That, however, is less than a tenth of the almost quarter-century that the Tremco has lasted on my boat. My concern with 5200 would be that since 5200 is an adhesive (and one that doesn't stick well to itself), if you got a leak, you'd have to cut open the whole hull-deck joint on that side, clean both surfaces perfectly, then try again. I had to do this with a genoa track and it ain't fun. The issue would be similar with any sealant that cures, adhesive or not.
Please let us know how it turns out if you do embark on the job.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
I had a look at this product (Polyshim II) on the Tremcosealants.com web site and it looks like a good solution (I'm speaking purely hypothetically – I've watched people build C&C's and I've watched people repair this joint, but I've never done it myself). The shim is a continuous strand of EPDM rubber (a "high performance synthetic", whatever that means) and the width of the butyl tape appears to be about three times the diameter of the shim.
The one issue in using this material is that while it probably would be excellent at sealing the continuous edge where the hull flange and deck meet, it does not appear to be wide enough to provide enough material to squeeze around the retaining machine screws and prevent them from providing a water path (I remember the C&C tape as being quite wide and certainly the amount that has squeezed out of the joint on my boat would bear out this memory). If the Tremco pictures are accurate, I'd want to lay a second line of butyl tape (sans shim) along the line of the screw holes to seal them. Alternatively, I suppose you could use one of Tremco's sealants that are intended to seal the butt joints at the corners of windows.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Atkins & Hoyle will sell you the necessary lens, cleaning compound and sealant but if I recall correctly, it's about $175 and I'm not sure they're allowed to ship the cleaning compound, it's so toxic. However, they will tell you what it is, so if they can't ship the cleaner, you could probably buy it nearer home.
I looked the stuff up and the associated cautions included sterility, runny nose, blindness, loss of hair and instant death, so I decided to let them fix my hatch for me.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
> may I infer that some guy in the last century opted for "I'll replace it myself with screws" vs sending it in to be re-bonded?
I think that's a safe assumption. If he just ran them through the plexiglass and into the alloy frame you could probably have the hatch re-bonded. You don't have to take off the whole hatch – just pull the hinge pin and send in the "lid". Atkins & Hoyle normally replaces the gasket at the same time.
Alternatively, you could try a screw/caulk combo. This might or might not hold up, but you'd be risking a piece of plexiglass ($40-$50?) vs $400 for Atkins & Hoyle or Select to do it the "right" way. I've never seen a screwed hatch (mine is the first I've ever heard of failing) so I haven't a clue about durability, but I suspect that a bonded hatch would be superior.
Here's what little I know about screws in plexiglass: the author of the article referred to in the Windows section (who used to work for C&C and who now works for a company that repairs a lot of C&C's) regards screws as a poor solution for windows because plexi expands and contracts so much, but suggests that if you want to use screws, to do the following:
<ul><li> drill the holes in the plexiglass over-size (his example is that if you would normally drill 5/32" for a 1/8" screw, jump to 1/4");
<li> finish the edges of the plexi to #120 paper, being sure to eliminate all rough edges from which a crack might propagate;
<li> use flathead screws with cup (finishing) washers to spread the load as much as possible and to trap the caulk or alternatively, an external frame that matches the shape of the edge of the lens similar to the frames shown in the Windows section;
<li> use Dow Corning 795 glazier's caulk, which is both tenacious and able to stretch or compress 50% without compromising the seal.</ul>
Good luck.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
I originally had wire-wound exhaust hose on my boat, which I replaced by hacksawing a section out of the middle of each length, then removing the pieces individually. I replaced it with the same type, as it's incredibly tough and it's heatproof. I would not use anything less than this as the boat depends on this hose to stay afloat.
Exhaust hose is very stiff, but like almost anything made of plastic or rubber, becomes more pliable if it's heated. I brought an electric kettle to the boat and poured boiling water slowly over it, then quickly slipped it on.
As to your head hose, read the article on bad smells in Black Arts.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
I used Plastic World (nr. 401 at Yorkdale) for covers for the machine screws holding my tracks (see Black Arts on genoa tracks). They've also done work for others here. These covers were secured with flat-head screws.
In my experience, Velcro sticks well to Velcro, but the glue that holds the Velcro to the thing you're velcroing doesn't always hold up well in damp environments.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
The hull has an inward-turning flange at the gunwale. C&C put Tremco (butyl) tape on this flange, applied the deck, then the toe rail. Machine screws run though the toe rail, deck and flange. It's an expensive way to assemble a boat because it requires two people to tighten the nuts, but it looks better than the outer flange used by less finicky builders. If you look through the brochures on the C&C Photo Album web site, you're bound to find a diagram of the joint, because C&C invented it (or at least sincerely believed that they had - it's the sort of invention that often is independently developed by several people simultaneously in response to a common problem) and they were very proud of it.
All the bonding strength comes from the machine screws.
Tightening the machine screws is a normal maintenance operation because working of the joint will tend to open it. When the nuts are tightened (don't reef them up - you don't need much additional tightness), the Tremco squeezes a bit, and some will come out. Eventually, you'll get fibreglass-to-fibreglass contact and the next movement at that point will give you a leak, so you have to open up the joint and replace the sealant. My choice (see above) would be for more Tremco.
Those toerails are very stiff and I think they must add tremendously to the strength of the boat. I have seen them cut at the low point so that the deck will drain completely, but that would reduce the rails' contribution to the stiffness of the boat. I wouldn't do it.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
A heat gun will sometimes break the bond, at least enough to get some penetrating oil in (aluminum expands more than s/s, apparently). I did once have some success by making a little dam of window putty around a screw, then filling the pond thus created with penetrating oil.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Hatches on the Mk III and Mk IV were made by Atkins & Hoyle of Toronto, who bonded the plexiglass into the frame. This can be replaced in the original manner but it's not cheap. The main reason for doing it the original way is that running screws through the material is not the ideal way of securing plexiglass and Lexan.
As to making an original-type repair, the page on replacing windows in Black Arts is about to be augmented with the following text.
"Plexiglass or Lexan?
Your replacement material may not be plexiglass, though that is the less expensive choice. Plexiglas is a tradename for a brand of acrylic sheet; most people call this material plexiglass (and it's usually spelled that way) so that's what we'll use here. Lexan is polycarbonate sheet; again the tradename is becoming the generic name.
Your favourite sailing magazine's fear-mongering articles about rogue waves may have convinced you that you need the ultimate in strength, which means Lexan. Lexan is also bullet-proof (important on a sailboat). According to the Lewmar hatch-repair supplier, Select Plastics, as quoted in Sailing and their site's FAQ, Lexan's strength and clarity degrade more quickly than plexiglass', plus plexi has better resistance to scratches and cleaning chemicals. The result is a longer useful life at considerably less cost.
C&C Hatches
With the Mk III, C&C made the move from a fibreglass to an aluminum-framed hatch by Atkins & Hoyle in Toronto. If your hatch leaks around the plexi, they can replace it for you. The cost in 2000 was approximately C$400.00. In the US, Select Plastics (see above) fixes all makes of hatches; their price is not known."
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Clare's right – I should have referred to tightening the nuts while holding the machine screws immobile, though I think that Tremco tape is more tolerant of minor movement than sealants that cure to the surfaces, such as polysulphide or 5200.
By the way, I have been prompted to add that Tremco tape is simply a trade name for "butyl tape". It's available at good hardware stores or industrial suppliers and as you might expect of a product used to install screen doors and aluminum storm windows, it's very cheap.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
This may seem blasphemous in our time of miracle sealants, but I'd stick with the Tremco. If you replace it with new-style material, you'll have to open up and clean the mating surfaces perfectly, which won't be easy, and because the old and new aren't compatible, you'll have to find a clearly defined point where the old can end and the new can start – and since there isn't one, you'll have to do the entire boat (I've seen it done and it ain't pretty).
At this point, your Tremco probably has lasted twenty years. That's pretty good service and I think it deserves a second chance. Just be sure to tighten the retaining screws gently and evenly, so as not to squeeze all the material out, and give them another quarter-turn in a year.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
I think original plugs are more likely to have been set with resorcinol. Cheap, with a long pot life.
I don't remember 5200 before about 1985 – perhaps later – and they certainly wouldn't have used anything that expensive on the C&C production line. Their style then was Tremco tape, the grey goo that seeps out of your hull/deck joint. It is cheap as dirt (I think that's one of the primary ingredients) and never sets, so even if the boys left it lying around the plant while they were in on the weekend guzzling beer and working on their own projects, it wouldn't go to waste.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV