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We've been over this point time and again. The set screws are there but are covered in paint - count on it. Get a heat gun or paint stripper and clean the sides of the bracket.
As to pulling the shaft or not, pulling it gives you a chance to see how worn it is at the p-bracket and stern gland. Putting a new bearing on a badly worn shaft is throwing good money after bad. If the shaft is not too bad, a good prop shop can rebuild the metal and then machine it back to size. If it's too far gone, forget it.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
I have a hole in the sole directly above the bolt. It's just large enough for an extension, so you have to put that through, then reach under and attach the appropriate socket. Normally, the hole is closed off by the type of plastic plug used to cover fastener holes in the deckhead liner.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
I ordered a Speedseal for the rear-mounted pump after having good results with the front-mounted pump (I had a closed-circuit cooling system on my A4). The rear Speedseal never sealed, despite my jumping through several hoops with Speedseal's proprietor to try to diagnose the problem. Eventually he just washed his hands of me, which I didn't appreciate.
Search "speedseal" for the full story along with a contrasting experience with Moyer Marine, who stood firmly behind their products. If you want a quick-release impeller cover (and assuming that Moyer still sells one), I'd go with the Moyer product.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
According to the vessel registration database, Towser is 5.95 Gross Tonnage and 5.75 Net Tonnage.
This seems a good time to note that if you have a registered vessel (boat is identified by its name rather than a number on the bow), the old blue booklet has long been obsolete and invalid. To maintain the validity of your registration, you have to let the feds know your address and they will mail you (free) a current certificate of registry every few years.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Brand is to a large extent irrelevant - they're all going to be good enough for a season's operation (and after a season, the oil should be replaced without fail). The main criterion is that the oil be rated for diesel service, which is class CD. Our club mechanics recommend 15W-40, which is suitable for outside temperatures up to 40C and down to -15C. In NS waters you could probably run with 10W-30, but 15W-40 gives you a bit more margin and the cost difference wouldn't be worth considering against the value of the engine.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
I have a Pela oil pump (one of the ball-shaped ones that Jim describes) and I find it utterly useless on my Yanmar. I've had better luck by borrowing one of the big Pelas. But again, the thin-tube-down-the-dipstick doesn't work - what does is cobbling up a mess of different hoses so I can clamp the intake hose to the top of the dipstick tube. This doesn't reach the very bottom of the sump, but I'm assured this removes enough oil that an effective change is made.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Loose bolts and/or nuts on the engine bed or shaft coupling will magnify any alignment issues. Since the boat is new to you, you'll do well to check alignment after the boat has been back in the water for a week then reef all nuts and bolts really, really tight.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
The organizers of the conference have asked for advance questions from those who have signed up for the event, organized by the four main themes of "Design, Production, Performance and Legacy”. These will be answered, or at least discussed, by people representing all the main functions, plus people like sailmakers and journalists who were closely involved with the company.
Do you have a question about C&C Yachts that you would like to ask, but are unable to go? Post it here, and I will pass it on.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Re: the locker lid - You don't need to buy a pre-made lid - the triangle you cut out of the deck becomes the lid. If you cut slowly and carefully with a high-quality jigsaw (Makita or Bosch), the most material you will remove (the "kerf") will be around 3/32", which is a gap you'll need for the hatch to open smoothly anyway. True, you'll have to drill a hole to start the saw, but it you do it where one of the hinges will be placed, you won't see it.
When I saw this job in progress, I had my doubts, but by using a matching gelcoat and working carefully, the fellow did a job that you had to look at twice to tell it wasn't a factory anchor locker.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Are you suggesting that your daughter's presence was the prime mover in this near-disaster? I know the feeling. Wonderful to have her on board, can't stop looking over my shoulder for the oncoming train.
I don't know how handy you are, but a friend did manage to build a locker for his Mk III. He jig-sawed out a section of the bow almost exactly in the pattern of the locker in later boats and filled the cut edges with polyester resin and cabosil (polyester instead of epoxy so he could finish the edges with gelcoat). He then built the locker underneath from glassed-over plywood. The ledges on which the hatch rests are also glassed ply.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Gotta be quick in the canopy business. Here are two pics [1] and [2]. It's just two poles (which come apart in their middles) in sleeves at either end of a flat sheet of light sailcloth. There are two rings to attach a bridle that in turn attaches to the main halyard to raise the middle so it sheds water, and a zipper at the aft end to get around the boom topping lift. Ties to the lifelines hold it down. There are also drop-down sides to keep the sun out of the cockpit. It's not brilliant, and doubtless it could be improved on, but it does the trick.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
I stand corrected on using Dri-cote for ball races - but even corrected I will stand by the recommendation for Dri-cote for slides and luff tapes. Next task is to find an industrial lower-price equivalent to One Drop - but there is no hurry as I've found that any balkiness in Harken cars can be cured by turning the hose on them and giving them a good flushing.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
With respect to lubricating traveller balls - they're asking for McLube, right? Slightly more expensive per ml than good perfume. Instead try Bostik Dri-cote from Lee Valley or other serious hardware stores. According to a chemist friend, it's chemically identical but it's about 1/4 the price.
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=40951&cat=1,43415,43440
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Since no one seems to have dived into this one (yech, bad image), a couple of thoughts. This page has a list of replacement tank makers. The information may be old and the author can't spell so there are inaccuracies in the links, but it's a start.
http://www.whitbybrewersailboats.com/maintenance-repairs-upgrades-and-additions/81-sanitation-systems/61-holding-tank-replacement-summary
If you find that you really can't get there from here, you might copy a friend's trick - he made a cardboard copy of his tank, but slightly smaller to allow for the finished thickness of glass, slathered it with some sort of releasing agent, then gel-coated and fibreglassed it. After cutting an access hole, he removed the internal stiffening and any cardboard that came out easily. The rest, he assumed would rot and come out in pump-outs. An opening port and necessary fittings completed the job.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
I don't know how much bigger I made the holes; it was quite a while ago (8 years?). I made them "a bit" bigger, but when I tried fishing around to get balsa out, the space was too restrictive so I made them "a bit" bigger. Since I have a drill bit set that increments by 1/32", I'd guess that the first holes were 1/16" larger than the machine screws and I made them another 1/32" larger. But I may have gotten annoyed and gone up 1/16". I just don't remember. What I do remember is being concerned that I had a decent horizontal thickness between the epoxy and the balsa.
There was a leak through the deck in the first two weeks after I laid down the tracks so I pulled them both off and re-did them, again with 5200. Despite what I've said elsewhere about 5200, I have had no leaks through the deck and the surveyor hasn't found any dampness in the deck, so I may actually have gotten it right. I think the thin/thickened epoxy and syringe routine I described may have turned the trick for waterproofing the balsa and ensuring that the deck is hard enough that it doesn't progressively crush under load and create water-paths along the screws.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
I don't think that 5200 is a good choice for cyclic loads, particularly on stainless steel, despite what 3M says. If the part is static, it is tenacious, but anywhere I've used it where there is a big difference between the load and no-load state, it has failed, often relatively quickly. G-Flex, on the other hand, has turned my C&C Smile into a poker face for two years now, which is why I suggested it for this application.
As to drilling a drain hole, yes, if the fix isn't to be done this year. And why should it? I think this is something that can be successfully ignored at least until the next insurance survey while other issues are addressed. Mine would still be being ignored if I hadn't been told explicitly to fix it, as every C&C in our club has the problem, and the only rudder failures I know of involve the discovery of an unsuspected rock or the navigational incompetence of striking the buoyed concrete footing west of our club's rose garden. Two holes, one each side near the bottom of the delaminated portion, will suffice, and a dab of 5-minute epoxy in the spring will take care of it.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
In his excellent description of his cockpit sole rebuilding, Roger Gibb makes reference to a probable electrical "leak" from his boat into the surrounding water. Coincidentally, there is a warning in this month's Ocean Navigator magazine about the danger of such leaks. Apparently this was highlighted by the drowning of a teenager this summer and near-drowning of his friend.
Both boys were swimming in a marina and obviously there was stray current in the water that paralyzed one; the other was injured but managed to get far enough away to save himself. Counter-intuitively (at least to me) the danger is greatest in fresh water. Salt water is a uniformly good electrical path, so stray currents just go to ground. Fresh water is a lousy conductor, so electricity finds a better path through people. Zap, you're fried.
The expert advice is, don't concern yourself with how good a marina or club is at managing its electrical service. Even if it may normally be a safe environment, all it takes is a new boat with a problem and zap, you're fried. Don't swim anywhere (in marinas or clubs, or near dock walls) where boats are or may be plugged into shore power.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
1) I'd use a small hole-saw - maybe 3/4" instead of the 1/2" I suggested in Black Arts - in a pattern over the delaminated area. Do both sides at once and then prop the rudder up to dry in the basement, near the furnace or in some other warm spot. Turn it over once a month so all the water has a chance to drain. The foam in my rudder was structural, non-porous foam so only the surface was wet. Incidentally, your use of the word 'punky' in your first post suggests that you or your surveyor believe that the core of the rudder is rotting. It's structural foam - it doesn't rot, so there's probably nothing wrong with it.
2) The inside of the fibreglass shell is rough and the surface of the foam is rough, so epoxy should bond well. I'd thicken it to the consistency of thin ketchup and pour it in, then clamp or weight that side until some squelches out. Once the epoxy cures, turn the rudder over and do it again. You could either fill the holes with thickened epoxy or make fully faired glass patches. Filling the void will make an awful mess. Plastic on the floor and overalls or disposable clothing. Sanding or grinding should be done outside with good-quality dust masks at all times.
3) Water entry is probably through the join between the rudder post and the fibreglass shell. I'd dig out a nice little channel between the two, rough up the surfaces and fill it with West G-Flex flexible epoxy. Any water that might get in is probably entering from pinholes in the mating of the two shells of the rudder, so at the same time as you do the major repair, sand the join to bare glass and smooth out the surface with thickened epoxy. Use the extra G-Flex to fair the inevitable C&C Smile on the keel.
4) Take pictures. You could be New Rudder, Part II.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Phil's Foils is not the way to go, it's one way to go and I'm not convinced it's the best way to go. Moreover, if you do go the Phil's route, you have to make it really clear to them where the rudder top lies on the post, or you're going to have the same problem I had (I wrote the "New Rudder" page).
After the experience I had in removing the outer shell, I'm convinced that the void problem isn't as serious as surveyors make out. My preferred solution,if I were doing it again, would be the "drill, dry, re-bond with epoxy" method that I appended to my description of the process I went through. If you successfully re-establish the bond between the shells and the foam, you will have re-established the integrity of the rudder at or beyond the original level. It will cost you about $150 for materials, plus a couple of Saturday afternoons to do the work versus $2,000, plus all the work of stripping down the old post, for the Phil's Foils option. Get the vendor to knock $1,000 or $1,500 off the price to account for your time spent on the "drill, dry, re-bond with epoxy" method and you're ahead of the game.
Carbon fibre is an engaging wouldn't-that-be-cool dream, but it's not a sensible option for these boats. First, the cost difference is significant (a cost-is-no-object acquaintance put a carbon pole on a 29, and that set him back $3,500 versus the $500 I spent on my latest alloy one). Second, the rudder tube and bearings in these boats are solid fibreglass and the rudder stock bears directly on the tube. Not good. Carbon stocks are intended for mounting with Harken roller bearings, so add another $10-$20k for hardware and all the modifications required to mount the bearings. Finally, even if you did overcome the barriers to installing a carbon stock, the boat would never be allowed to race in a 27 Association event with a carbon stock and PHRF-LO would probably penalize it heavily, so you'd never be able to sell it to anyone with any interest in racing. You'd be like the guy here in Toronto who optimized his Shark so thoroughly, it's no longer class-legal. So, forget carbon. If you really must replace the stock, ask Phil's to do you one in aluminum alloy. It's much more appropriate, a lot cheaper and they're feather-light compared to stainless.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
1) About two grand if you go my route (the alternative, described in "Hyperion's new rudder" in Black Arts would be much less).
2) I ignored the first warning for about ten years. On my second insurance survey at the ten-year mark, I was told, "Fix it."
3) Drilling a drain hole is a stop-gap measure that most people adopt to prevent further damage from water freezing in the laminate. You will probably be surprised at how much water comes out. Read Black Arts > New Rudder for what I did as a permanent solution and what I think I could have happily gotten away with.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
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