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I have a C&C 27 MK IV. When tuning last weekend I noticed the portside spreader was wobbly. Beyond just frustrating the tuning process and causing some performance problems, there are clear dangers with this. I haven't been up in a bosun's chair yet, but has anyone had this problem and, thus, suggest what to look for when I get up there hanging on with white knuckles?
Thanks,
Jim
"Over the Yardarm" Palm Harbor, FL
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The spreader slides into a round receptacle that forms part of a fitting that also holds the lowers and that is fastened to the mast by rivets and a through-bolt. Between the spreader itself and the fitting is a piece of rubber hose that provides some elasticity in the mounting.
It is possible that this piece of hose has eroded or has deteriorated to the point where it no longer provides any support to the spreader. In that case, all you need to do is remove the spreader and replace the hose (I'd do both sides). You can probably do this without unstepping the mast as the lowers and some judiciously applied halyards will keep it in place.
Alternatively, the fasteners holding the spreader base may have failed in some way. If, when you go up, you find that the base is loose, I suggest that you drop the spar and have a good look at it on the ground. Other important parts may also have problems.
Don't be nervous about going up the spar. Just get comfortable in the bo's'un's chair, tape the halyard shackle (or tie on with a bowline) and get someone reliable in the winch. If you have any qualms, tie on a second halyard and get another person to pay that halyard out and in as you're going up and down.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
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Thanks so much for the insight, David. This gives me a much better idea of what to look for. Will let you know how it turns out. ----Jim
....I meant to ask what kind of hose one might use, or is there a particular kind of sleeve recommended?
It's just automotive hose of between 1 1/2" and 2" inside diameter. Sorry, I can't be more exact because I've not had to replace it. There was a discussion about this earlier - perhaps the fellow who started that will notice your query and give you a more accurate number.
If you do remove your spreader, note that there is (or should be) a ball swaged on the shroud at the spreader. Make sure you replace the spreader on the same side of the ball as it was previously or the spreader will shift to the wrong angle.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
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Sorry it has taken me this long to contribute to this thread but I only demasted this week (for our customary six-month winter layup). I was the one who started off the previous thread to which David referred. After an extensive search, I found suitable heater hose for the inboard end of my Mark III's spreaders at a truck supply shop. It has an outside diameter of about 1-5/8" and a wall thickness of about 3/16". My spreaders are 1" aluminum pipe which has an O.D. of 1-5/16" so the hose is a snug fit. It costs $2 an inch <IMG src="http://www.cc27association.com/f3/toast/emoticons/icon_exclaim.gif"> up here and you'll need no more than 5" to do both sides.
I'd recommend taking the mast down rather than using your halyards as substitute stays to enable you to remove the uppers. I'd be concerned that you can swing about in a bosun's chair, putting unwanted lateral pressure on the mast above the spreaders. Also, taking the mast down enables you to do both spreaders, taking the necessary time to do it properly, including taking your spreaders to the shop to ensure that the hose is a good fit.
Let me know how it turns out.
Ken Pole
Santiva
Ottawa
Ken Pole, Ottawa
1975 Mark III Santiva
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Thanks. I worked on it last weekend with the bosun's chair (no hint of any problem with stability). As you all have reported, the heater hose type of material was badly worn and cracked. I replaced this with some left over scupper hose I used recently when replacing both hoses for the cockpit scuppers. (That's a whole other tale, since the white, fairly thick hose was very hard to position correctly, but eventually it worked well). this hose seems to have worked quite well for the spreader problem, too. It is about 1 1/2 inch in diameter (I bought it at Westmarine), and it was just a bit loose inside the boot. Beyond this, however, it seems to have done the job. I then tuned the rigging and it all looks great with the spreader no longer suffering from the 'wobbles.' The other side did seem fine but I plan to replace it when I finally decide to take down the mast. Good sailing down here finally (summer is hideous, as you probably know), so I am reluctant to take away from any sailing time!
thanks for all the help on this.
Jim Andrews,
"Over the Yardarm" Palm Harbor, FL
You're welcome - and now for an absolutely shameless plug: The best thanks we can get is your membership in the Association (much of your dues goes to support this Forum).
BTW - if by white hose, you mean that Sealand sanitation hose, I'd be leery of using that long-term. It's very hard, so it won't provide the "give" of the original, softer rubber hose. (I really don't know if that flexibility is essential and unfortunately I don't know anyone to ask, but since it was part of the original and without some knowledgeable advice, I'd be reluctant to change it.)
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
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...funny you mentioned that, because I just sent the application. However, if there was an online application I would have joined much earlier...maybe something to consider?
To be effective, an on-line application would have to be paired with an on-line payment system. At low volumes - and even if we got every 27 owner in the world, we'd still be low volume - on-line payment systems take a big slice of your revenue. Since most existing members would take advantage of the convenience, we'd almost certainly suffer a net loss. What's perhaps worse for a volunteer-based organization is that we'd take a serious hit in administrative overhead.
Thanks for the thought, but attractive as the idea may be, it's simply not feasible for a group like this.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
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Does anyone happen to know if the MkII is the same size spreaders? I have a wobbler on the port side that I need to sort out and I'd like to try and do it in one trip up the mast if possible.
Paul Baker
Sidney, BC
1974 Mk II
Paul Baker
Sooke, BC
1974 Mk II
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I can answer that with a resounding, "probably". First, C&C tended to sweat details, then stick with a good thing when they found it until there was a reason to revisit the issue. Early spreader fittings look like late spreader fittings, and so are unlikely to have changed. Also, C&C had a large stock of 27 spars of earlier dimensions that occasionally were fitted to boats destined for windier regions. It's unlikely they would complicate issues by changing spreader fittings.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Offline
Thanks David, resounding probablies are about the best to hope for with old boats! I'll see if I can find some hose to the above spec in local marine or auto parts places.
Cheers,
Paul
Paul Baker
Sidney, BC
1974 Mk II
Paul Baker
Sooke, BC
1974 Mk II
Offline
The hose should be a really snug fit to minimize fore-and-aft movement. If you find a hose that fits the spreader but is a bit large for the socket, that type of heavy rubber is readily sanded. Hard work, but gets the job done.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Offline
I was up the mast yesterday and the spreader on mine is 1.25" outside diameter and the mast fitting is 1.75". The spreader is held on with a split pin. The hose that had been used previously appears to be 3/16" wall thickness so not a snug fit in the mast fitting, hence the wobble even though the rubber itself was in OK condition.
I found some steel reinforced hose at a truck parts place with a 1.25" I/D and 1/4" wall thickness (very slightly over actually, maybe 0.015" bigger). Going back up the mast in a little while to see if I can get it all back together. I think I will likely use a rubber mallet to gently tap the hose into the mast fitting, then drill through the hose for the split pins. I'll then try to ease the spreader back in, hopefully lining up the holes and putting a new split pin in place, and then I'll cover the fitting in rigging tape to seal it up and protect the rubber hose. If it all works, should be good for another 20 years.
Paul Baker
Sidney, BC
1974 Mk II
Paul Baker
Sooke, BC
1974 Mk II
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Well, after two hours or so hanging up the mast with the snow howling around, the original hose is back in place. I got the new stuff to fit into the mast fitting, but then couldn't get the spreader into it. Or I could get the new hose onto the spreader, and then couldn't get it into the mast fitting. It's just too tight to be able to do it aloft. If I pull the mast, or if I can get to the end of the spreader from a shore crane, then it will be a perfect snug fit with a bit of gentle persuasion from a rubber mallet. It's not as bad as I thought up there, the rubber isn't completely shot so it'll be OK for a while. So for the time being, it's two mast climbs, countless bruises, muscles aching and zero actual result.
On the positive side, the mast is now nice and straight, and I have the stays tensioned as I wanted them.
Paul Baker
Sidney, BC
1974 Mk II
Paul Baker
Sooke, BC
1974 Mk II
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