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I have recently purchased a 1976 MKII. It seems to be an extremely original boat. I have owned a San Juan 24, and a Catalina 27. On the C&C there is no boom vang, and the mainsheet is aft of the cockpit. The winch on the mast is for the really large genoa, with none for the mainsail. I cruise and don't race. The boat performs well and compared to my previous boats is quick. I am curious as to what most owners do for upgrades etc. I love the boat by the way, and am extremely proud of her performance and construction. I sail on Lake Lanier, near Atlanta Georgia. I suppose my question is: What are the upgrades on my rigging that will improve the boat, and secondly, is roller furling a good thing for this boat?
Charles,
I have a Trapper 500, which is almost a C&C 27 MK I. This has single line slab reefing, roller furling genoa and all lines led back to the cockpit; this latter is a very simple modification.
To me, sailing without a kicking strap (British English for vang) is quite unthinkable.
Would you like me to email you photos of the setup?
Frank Marsden
"Chanterelle" GBR 3408Y
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To answer your specific question first, I think roller furling is a good idea for cruising. If you sail alone at all, it's great. If you sail with novices, it's great. 'Nuff said.
I agree with Frank that a boom vang is important if you have any interest in sail shape.
On a more general note, I like the idea of having everything run back to the cockpit, whether you race or cruise. You are fortunate that no one has done it before, so you can fit contemporary gear without having to fill up holes left by worn-out junk.
One of my goals in refitting Towser was to keep the line loads low wherever possible to make it as easy as possible for my children to participate in sailing the boat. Therefore I fitted a 6:1 outhaul, 8:1 cunningham, 8:1 vang, 5:1 mainsheet and 2:1 crosshauls on the traveller. All blocks are now ball-bearing. In addition, I recently moved the 2-speed sheet winches to the coachroof as halyard winches, replacing them with self-tailing 2-speed winches (you do not need a mainsheet winch).
Are all these changes necessary? Perhaps not all, but in addition to realizing the goal of allowing the children to take part, they mean that my wife and I can handle the boat with complete ease. The new blocks are a big part of it. Those old Schaeffer blocks may _look_ like they've got years of life in them, but when you load them up, the friction jumps dramatically, so I assume their axles and bearings are tired at best, shot at worst.
David Weatherston
"Towser", Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Last edited by (2003-10-29 12:23:08)
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
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My other reason for needing a boom vang is to aid stability downwind.
I tried very hard to lead the controls back with a minimum of new holes, and in paticular no holes through the internal moulded headlining.
The coachroof design allows lines to be led back from the base of the mast to rope clutches immediately in front of the coachroof mounted winches without the need for organisers.
Frank Marsden
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A PS to my earlier post:
In a post in the General Questions thread, Chuck Crumrine says:
>The improvements that have given me the most bang for the buck are running the main halyard, single line reef lines, and outhaul to the cockpit. Singlehanding is a breeze.
David Weatherston
"Towser", Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Last edited by (2003-10-30 23:51:54)
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
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Absolutely agree, lead everthing back to the cockpit, however, I have never been able to get a mainsail clew outhaul to work on any boat I have owned, including dinghies. There always seems to be too much friction in the system
Frank Marsden
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> I have never been able to get a mainsail clew outhaul to work on any boat I have owned, including dinghies. There always seems to be too much friction in the system.
The magic word is "Harken".
I have a system of cascading blocks inside the boom leading to an exit box at the gooseneck and a block at the mast base, finishing a cam cleat on the coachroof. The muscle required to move this system is negligible. Shock cord inside the boom makes sure it releases smoothly and also keeps the parts from rattling around. A variety of options are reproduced in the Harken catalogue.
I don't think I can over-emphasize how pleasant it is (as well as being a safety factor) that just about anyone can handle the lines on our boat. On boats with high line loads, many women and most children feel like they're on the margins because they can't do things. I can tell my daughter (14) or son (13) to max out the outhaul and know they can do it.
David Weatherston
"Towser", Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
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David,
Thank you.
I have always found that the friction on the clew slide is a major problem.
Is your main loose footed?
Frank
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The clew slide on my main is supposedly a self-lubricating plastic and has always moved smoothly and easily on demand. Suddenly this fall, despite many applications of McLube, it started binding in high wind. I guess it should be treated as a wear item and replaced from time to time (it's almost 4 years old, so I can't complain).
The foot of my main is roped, but the way the sail is structured, it's never under appreciable load and so always moves easily.
David Weatherston
"Towser", Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
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There are now pictures of a slab reefing setup on:-
<A href="http://w1.660.telia.com/~u66006007/trapper/">http://w1.660.telia.com/~u66006007/trapper/</A>
Frank Marsden
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The original C&C MK I had (believe it or not) boom roller furling. A boom vang also came with the boat, it is a normal looking vang except for sheet metal clamshell like pieces with lips on them that fit into the boom grove alongside the foot of the mainsail. When the main was reefed, you had to use a horshshoe shaped piece to ride on the furled main. They actually work pretty well.
I still use mine ocassionally, although I plan to upgrade the boom and refit to run all lines to the cockpit. I have jiffy reefing with which the current boom vang works..
Warren Smith
As an owner of a Mark III, the need of a boom vang is reduced but still necessary sometimes, because, as the mainsheet is forward, sail shape can be controlled with the sheet. But with the mainsheet aft, the mainsheet purchase is drastically reduced so a boom vang becomes much more advantageous, nay, necessary for decent sail shape.
The best upgrade if you are a cruiser, you have touched on...roller furler. You won't believe how nice that is when you come in after a great day on the water, tired, sunburned, satiated but happy, and you don't have a genny to fold! Racers though, tend not to use a furler. We have a furler and use in the summer but don't use it when racing.
Next I think, would be to have the lines lead aft. Not really all that important if you are cruising with others but good if you are single handing or if you expect to race.
Then after that, if you are still in the spending mood, you might consider fairlead tracks, and if you do race, this jumps up to almost most important. You will point much higher and get much better genny shape with tracks.
Hope this helps,
Fred
Hi Dave;
Do you have pics of how you've run your rigging back? I don't love mine and what you have done sounds great.
heh@numeric.comHorace Henderson
76 MKIII - Newport RI
You can see the port side arrangement in a photo of Towser's genoa tracks in the Black Arts section on deck tracks – 4-sheave deck organizers forward followed by Spinlock dual stoppers for halyard and vang, with cam cleats for the outhaul and cunningham. This is almost identical to the setup on Yogi Bear, which you can see on the same page.
For what it's worth, here's a picture of the rat's nest at the foot of the mast and another of the inboard end of the boom. The fiddle block is the vang; everything else is outhaul and halyards except the small triple block, which is part of a tackle that handles the cunningham. The outhaul is internal to the boom (the block on the gooseneck simply prevents the outhaul from interfering with the compass bracket). In the boom photo, you can see a set of deck organizers similar to Towser's except for those being a single row of sheaves, rather than two-over-two as ours are.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Last edited by (2004-11-19 03:16:25)
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
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I am putting in an internal outhaul and looking at how to do the exit. It looks like David has an exit block at the bottom of the boom near the gooseneck running down through two blocks to the rope clutches.
My question is is there any changes to outhaul tension when you tack or when you let the boom out as you veer offwind.
THanks for the pics. It answered some questions.
Allan
Cygnus
C&C 27 Hull 518
Allan
Cygnus
C&C 27 Hull 518
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There may be changes from tack to tack but these would be of no practical significance as the boom remains on centreline. From beating to reaching or running, the change might be greater, but that's again of no practical significance because you're changing the outhaul setting when you change heading anyway. Any change in tension that might be altered by the change in relative angles from one point of sail to another is mitigated by the 4:1 cascade, so any variation (which is probably measured in millimeters) is reduced to 1/4 of the original by the time you get to the outhaul.
Incidentally, when I got the boat, it had a totally jury-rigged external outhaul. When I pulled off the outboard casting, I found the central slot drilled for a sheave, but with no sheave fitted. The last time I had the inboard casting off, I realized that it is a mirror image of the outer casting, so a sheave could be fitted there as well. From there it would be a straight drop to the foot of the mast, which would avoid the bother of the external block. The whole assembly could be done with small blocks and small-diameter line (Amsteel or similar dinghy-size Spectra), so it would be light, and more importantly, free-running.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
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