This Forum is supported by C&C 27 owners like you whose membership in the C&C 27 Association makes possible this Forum and the accompanying site. Thank you, members, for your continuing commitment.
You are not logged in.
Replacing the holding tank is far and away the biggest problem I've had in refitting our Mark II C&C 27. I removed the cabinets behind the toilet and the original bladder tank that was there (yucky - glad it's gone). I've been scouring the Internet and thinking out every possible solution. None are easy. The head is still stripped of all cabinets while I ponder.
---------
"New" 1974 C&C 27 Mk II undergoing refit
I have a bunch of 1/4" plastic used by a local factory that makes stainless steel conveyer belts for the food manufacturing industry. The plastic is part of the conveyor mechanism, so tough and clean. It feels almost greasy, and it does not fracture easily. I used some to bed some tanks in a previous boat. Might make an ideal base if it is UV resistant, but on our Mark II, the old organizers were sitting on a flat epoxy surface someone had made with a form. I had to extend it 1" for the new Spinlock, but I have a solid flat surface. Makes me wonder if I need any additional base, and your comments David seem to support that idea.
---------
"New" 1974 C&C 27 Mk II undergoing refit
Tef-Gel just appeared in the Stright-MacKay catalogue this year. Got a tube last month.
---------
"New" 1974 C&C 27 Mk II undergoing refit
The type "C" bases finally arrived. We dryfitted them and found they do not fit tightly enough into our Mark II toerail to line up with the original bolt holes. Because they were too far outboard (about 1/8" - 3/16"), if we drilled new holes we could not fit nuts onto the bolts inside. Also the outboard vertical leg was a hair too long, so the base would not sit flat on the After thinking through all the options for an hour, we decided to file one of the bases in three places. It now fits perfectly. One hole in the base lines up with one toerail bolt, but because the base holes are narrower than the toerail bolts, we'll have to drill the second hole. And we'll also have to drill holes for the horizontal bolt through both the sleeve and stanchion. That horizontal bolt hole is tapped on the inboard leg, which is a very nice feature. The inboard vertical leg ends up too far away from the toerail, but that's easy to shim. I'll take the remaining 5 bases to a machine shop to modify them after the first one,starting with just one to ensure the measurements are correct. We may have to fine tune a couple of the bases later, because the toerail curves a bit more away from 90 degress vertical midships than fore or aft, where we did the model modification.
So, it's not a drop-in solution, but splashdown is still nearly 3 months away, though the tide clock is ticking. I'll do up a Mark II Type C stanchion base modification Black Arts submission with photos for David's consideration after we get this done.
---------
"New" 1974 C&C 27 Mk II undergoing refit
Excellent info, Dave and Marcus, thanks. Got the same opinions locally: headliner can be cut, washers OK instead of backing plate. Your extra detail is very helpful, especially the point that screws are OK at each end of the Spinlock organizer.
Why does the organizer need a hardwood or Starboard base instead of bolting down to the hard point epoxy base that raises up off the cabin roof a bit? Rub protection should the lines contact the base?
---------
"New" 1974 C&C 27 Mk II undergoing refit
I am installing new deck line organizers that require 6 bolts (one for each sheave and one at each end). The original organizer had one bolt in the center that reached through the coach roof deck and headliner to a washer on the inside of the cabin and apparently nothing preventing compression of the headliner to the coach roof deck, plus two screws that penetrated part way into the deck.
I am not certain of the best way to fasten the 6 new bolts on the inside of the cabin. It doesn't make sense to put washers against the headliner, given the 1/4" air gap between the headliner and the coach roof deck. One alternative is to cut six unsightly 3/4" holes in the headliner so I can insert smaller washers on the bolts to lie flat against the inside of the coach roof deck. Or opening up the headliner with a large rectangle to insert a stainless backing plate.
None of these options are appealing: not only unsightly in the cabin, although I could come up with some kind of cover, but also means cutting holes into the headliner and potentially compromising any strength that it might provide the boat in ways I have not considered.
Suggestions?
---------
"New" 1974 C&C 27 Mk II undergoing refit
After much discussion, I ended up simply ordering a 2" Vetus SS exhaust tip. The flange is 90 degrees to the pipe, same as the original on this boat.
---------
"New" 1974 C&C 27 Mk II undergoing refit
The Moyer Marine website archives is the best place to find out all there is to know about Atomic 4 sailboat engines. There are several great impeller threads there.
<a href="http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/index.php">http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/index.php</a>
A standard A4 has one impeller per water pump. In a freshwater-cooled engine (one fitted with a heat exchanger), there will be two water pumps, one pumping cold raw water to the heat exchanger and out the exhaust, and another pumping cooled antifreeze coolant from the heat exchanger to the engine. In a raw water-cooled engine, there will only be one pump, pumping raw water through the engine and out the exhaust.
Each pump has an impeller. Check out the archives at the MMI website for instructions, or purchase Don's excellent Atomic 4 service manual and accompanying notes. There is also a less detailed but good Canadian Atomic 4 manual available from an Ontario website (Seacraft Publications). Each pump has a plate that unscrews, revealing the impeller. The impeller slides off the shaft, but there can be tricks to this, depending on the model. Re-insert the new impeller and replace the cover plate, being careful not to pinch the o-ring. It's like riding a bicycle: a bit of a learning curve the first time, then it's drop-dead easy.
Impellers are standard parts at marine suppliers, but there are differences between models. See the archives at the MMI site.
---------
"New" 1974 C&C 27 Mk II undergoing refit
Wow, Brent, that's a big list. I've been at it since last February, and estimate I'm about 60% done. Starting to reassemble things now. The boat is sound, and my plan is to redo all the systems so I can start out right. I like doing this too (be crazy to take it on if didn't). The list:
- engine refit (no need to pull engine, just paint, upgrade parts, renew hosees, etc).
- compounded topsides and new bootstripe, cove, name decals.
- sanded and painting deck after removing all hardware.
- fairing hull after soda blasting/sanding, then barrier coat and bottom paint.
- varnish and paint cabin, engine space, and all lockers.
- revise deck running rigging layout and hardware.
- replace all wiring, new distribution panels.
In doing the deck, I chased all the bolt holes to ensure the balsa core is solid and then epoxied any that were not epoxy-protected, which was most). Very impressed with how white and solid the deck core is everywhere in this 35 year old boat. Only found one 4" square of core problem around one sidestay chainplate. The bulkheads are fine. I opened up all 6 sidestay chainplate holes, made oval coffer dams and refilled with epoxy to seal them off.
Working indoors, so it is quite pleasant. Coveralls, music, good lighting, warmth, tools and a boat - perfect way to spend winter hours.
---------
"New" 1974 C&C 27 Mk II undergoing refit
Six months of preparation, finally painting the deck! Got first coat of primer on part of it last night. Phew.
---------
"New" 1974 C&C 27 Mk II undergoing refit
I am installing a waterlift muffler with a 2" outlet port. The original transom throughull exhaust tip is for a 1.5" ID hose. So, I either need to find a way to bush down at the nipple on that fitting from the 2" ID hose to the 1.5" OD nipple, or replace the throughull fitting for a 2".
Finding a replacement fitting is turning out to be tricky.
1. 2" nipples on transom exhaust tips do not appear to be standard.
2. I like the idea of a flapper valve to inhibit water ingress, but they don't seem to come that small. A couple of companies make exhaust tips with internal check valves, but I've been warned off inline check valves in general. In this case, it might be hard to know whether the valve was blocking exhaust or had failed completly. An external flapper would be easier to check, and unlikley to caust blockage.
3. I'll have to check next time I'm at the boat, but from the brochure diagram, it looks like the Mark II transom slopes 25 degrees off 90. That does not appear to be standard for exhaust flanges, either.
Any thoughts?
---------
"New" 1974 C&C 27 Mk II undergoing refit
Practical Sailor January 2009 reviewed two new CookMate alcohol stoves, with their usual extra useful information.
---------
"New" 1974 C&C 27 Mk II undergoing refit
Thanks guys - all good thoughts. I had already rebuilt the Mark II G10 pump with the kit, and repainted it: Like new now. I'll take a look at the antisiphon valve solution too.
---------
"New" 1974 C&C 27 Mk II undergoing refit
What is the optimum routing for the bilge pump outflow? Ours is a 1.5" ID hose running from the bilge to the manual pump (Whale G10) under the floor of the cockpit, and from there to the transom throughull above the waterline, no seacock). I presume the G10's first one-way valve acts like a checkvalve to keep seawater from backflowing into the bilge?
Edit: (Actually the throughull is high on the starboard quarter of the hull at the stern, not the transom.)
---------
"New" 1974 C&C 27 Mk II undergoing refit
We are in salt here and I worry about stainless crevice corrosion in SS parts at welds, fitting joints and supports for SS tanks. It is my understanding too that standing water + low oxygen are the problem, but I simplify that to any standing water. My rule of thumb here is no SS underwater, including fittings on deck or in the bilge. Design is the first step, and then I thnk Lanacote (lanolin), Tef-Gel or Duralac maybe can help keep out water out of joints that don't wiggle, in addition to preventing corrosion between SS and aluminum. Joints with lots of wiggle should, as Dave suggests, prevent standing water from standing if it has a path to run out, be flushed by rain and dry in the sun. So, no vinyl on SS lifelines or standing rigging for me. And check the hose clamps on the stuffing box.
---------
"New" 1974 C&C 27 Mk II undergoing refit
I agree with David. A few years ago I was in a delivery crew on a boat that was not old but had been well used. We noticed the lifeline plastic coating was peeling a bit so started fiddling with it. It opened readily and exposed frayed strands. Convinced me to go with bare wire for this refit. Some of the ocean races now require bare lifeline wire. Important of course to keep an eye out for pickies that could tear skin, which a big advantage of the coated wire.
---------
"New" 1974 C&C 27 Mk II undergoing refit
Turned a milestone corner in the refit tonight. After weeks of preparation, I epoxied up about 70 bolt holes in the deck. I had removed all the hardware to paint the deck. I am abandoning the 6 lifeline stanchions on the deck, so those 24 holes could be filled in. The handrail holes all needed epoxy cores to protect the still-white balsa, and I will have to redrill new holes. Had to anyway, because a third of the screws broke off and stayed in the teak. I tried to remove them, but way too difficult - the brass just breaks up. So I'll shift the outside rails forward 3/4". I am also abandoning the extra set of winches and several cleats in favour of line clutches, so all those holes could be filled in. Hired some help to fair the hull.
Unbelievably, some time between last summer when we stripped the deck and now, I've misplaced the deck chain pipe fitting. It was beautiful: stainless with a hawse extension protecting the open balsa core so well that it was bone dry. Now I'll have to epoxy that edge (was going to anyway) and had to order a new deck pipe. Of course, I can't find one near as nice as that old original. Sigh.
The new window spline and sponge kit arrived from South Shore today, and a local shop is cutting the new windows.
Spring deadline is starting to look do-able.
---------
"New" 1974 C&C 27 Mk II undergoing refit
A friend used Interdeck 2-3 years ago and it's doing well. A colleague used it 7 years ago on a similar boat and says it is fine. Won't be near as permanent as the original stippled gelcoat obviously was, but then neither am I.
---------
"New" 1974 C&C 27 Mk II undergoing refit
Excellent again, Marcus, thanks. I shall order the bases today. I use Duralac to separate dissimilar metals on the boat, but it can leave nasty yellow stains, so I'll need to be careful. I've got Lanocote on my list for the next trip to the city. Tef-Gel would be nice to have too, but a guy only needs one of those three, I suppose. I may get a professional shop to drill the six stanchion/sleeve pairs. I have a floor drill and cutting paste, and I've drilled lots of stainless on previous boats, but a nearby shop can do this particular job cleaner, better and faster than I can.
Now I can get on with filliing the 24 deck holes from the old stanchions and get on with the priming/painting.
---------
"New" 1974 C&C 27 Mk II undergoing refit
South Shore recommends their Type C stanchion base for a 1974 Mark II. Can't tell from the photo, but on the phone they explain that the third bolt enters horizontally from the outboard side of the base, going through the stanchion and horizontally to or into the vertical part of the toerail. The stanchion has a 1" hole, so they sell sleeves that bush down to accept a 7/8" stanchion.
---------
"New" 1974 C&C 27 Mk II undergoing refit
Down to crunch time on this issue. I removed the 6 stanchion bases last fall for the 7/8" x 24" stanchions on this Mark II, and need to decide whether to retap and refit those old 4-bolt originals, or buy new ones and move to the toereail. One supplier mentioned here recommends the model with two bolts in the toe rail (need to drill one) and a leg that sits on the deck inboard of the toerail. I don't think that inboard leg has a horizontal bolt toward the toerail (certainly no bolt vertically into the deck, but hard to tell from the photo). Any thoughts on those? I imagine that if I went with them (not cheap) I would also need to glue down a SS plate to spread the load under that leg? I'll call the other supplier too.
No easy decision here in terms of time, money, trouble or design efficiencies.
---------
"New" 1974 C&C 27 Mk II undergoing refit
Thanks for that, Marcus. I'm thinking of Interlux Pre-Kote followed by Interdeck on the nonskid areas.
---------
"New" 1974 C&C 27 Mk II undergoing refit
Does anyone know what the original nonskid deck surface was on a 1974 Mark II C&C 27? I sanded off the stippled nonskid that may have been applied later. The only place I found traces of old diamond under the stippling was in the floor of the cockpit.
---------
"New" 1974 C&C 27 Mk II undergoing refit
Brent, when you say topside, do you mean the hull above the waterline to the toe rail, or do you mean the deck/coach roof/cockpit?
---------
"New" 1974 C&C 27 Mk II undergoing refit
I'm glad to get the 4-gallon confirmation. Here is my estimate for the order I just put in for Interlux Interprotect for our Mark II: overall length x beam x 85% = wetted surface area (better to actually measure it). Divide that by 60 for brushing to get gallons required to reach 10 mil thickness = 27.3 x 9.18 x 0.85 - 213.02/0.6 = 3.6 gallons = 4 gallons. I ordered two of white and two of gray.
---------
"New" 1974 C&C 27 Mk II undergoing refit