This Forum is supported by C&C 27 owners like you whose membership in the C&C 27 Association makes possible this Forum and the accompanying site. Thank you, members, for your continuing commitment.
You are not logged in.
You may be able to buy something that is advertised as the appropriate colour, but remember that your interior colour will have shifted with time, so the match may not be quite what you want.
Another solution is to have the present colour analyzed and matched. Many (not all) larger suppliers of fibreglassing supplies have a scanner that can read a patch of old gelcoat and spit out a recipe for the standard colourants required to make that shade (paint stores can do the same, but you'll get paint colourants, not gelcoat). it's not cheap, because you have to buy a fairly large quantity of gelcoat to get the mix right. In addition, some proprietors are capable of looking at a sample and mixing a very good approximation; this may be a better route as they may not ask you to buy 10 lifetimes' supply of the mix, unlike above.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
No, sorry. However, it is based on 2 2-part poles, one secured to the backstay, one on top of the main. The poles are sleeved into the canopy, which ties off at several points on its length to the lifelines. The centre of the canopy is held up by the main halyard so that it sheds rain effectively.
It's not fancy, but it's an effective sunshade and as protection from light to moderate rainfall.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
For Sale
Main for Mk III/IV in CX by Triton Sails of Mississauga, a laminate that Keven Piper of Haarstick describes as "indestructible as long as you don't let mildew get into it". Keven described it as "a bit draft-aft", but this is still a good solid main with lots of time available on it. Has been stored for the last five years in anticipation of cruising that never happened. Full-batten. Note that the battens are 106", 96", 63" and 34" long; Canada Post will not ship anything over 2 meters long (78.74"), so a purchase by someone within pickup distance of Toronto makes more sense. $600.00 firm. SOLD
2 Spinlock XA double rope clutches with Starboard bases shaped to fit a 27's coachroof. Orig. about 180.00 each, pair $120.00. Includes spare handle. SOLD
1 single Spinlock rope clutch, new in box, $40.00. SOLD.
Genco cockpit canopy, white, with supporting poles, bag. Some mended chafing, but otherwise quite serviceable. SOLD.
Shipping, if required, is extra.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
It is entirely possible that despite your best efforts, the new backing plate will rot, but in another 36 years, that's unlikely to be your problem. I'd use plywood and bed the drain fitting well so it won't let water through; if you're concerned about rot, you could coat the wood with epoxy. If you're dead set on ignoring the advice in the first sentence, you could use Starboard (a vinyl board) or multiple layers of fibreglass.
Of greater concern is the hose that joins the drains and through-hulls below. When I bought our '82 boat in '97, the surveyor immediately condemned the hoses due to visible cracking; these are normally very expensive, but a forum member reported that he was able to get replacements for all his underwater hoses at a very good price from marine discounter Defender Industries.
Fortunately, Mk IV's have real seacocks and these were renewed with a good cleaning. Many older C&C's have through-hulls topped with brass gate valves. These may be corroded, so make sure they work before replacing the hoses. If they don't work, let us know and someone will doubtless point you to the many discussions of their replacement.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Most questions are the product of ignorance; that's why you need to ask them. There is nothing wrong with ignorance begetting a question; problems arise only with ignorant answers. So don't belabour yourself, or you may have the admin on your tail for frittering away the world's supply of valuable pixels.
On Towser I cleaned away much of the grey and dirty sealant, scraping it away with a putty knife, then wiping the area clean with paint thinner or Varsol. This makes working in that area less mucky, and the stuff no longer gets on things that are piled too high on the shelves.
By trimming the liner, I think you're likely to make visible some of the areas that the liner was intended to hide, turning a once-in-a-year nuisance into a continual visual annoyance. Also, since the liner is fibreglass, cutting it will make a colossal mess.
I find I can reach all my stanchion nuts with a socket set; there are some however that are best reached with a geared socket wrench (if you haven't seen them, they're just like socket wrenches, but the socket ratchets - very handy).
I'm sorry - I have no idea where to get the edging.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
You're right - the marine grade is more viscous. Whether that makes it better or not, I don't know. I do know, though, that if you press the button too hard on the spray stuff, it goes a long way (not good). You could probably use the spray stuff for a touch-up job on the main bearings; for a full teardown-clean-&-relube job, I'd use the marine grade.
Incidentally I bought little cloth hats for my winches when I discovered I couldn't do a full service without taking the bases off the deck (you have to ask yourself why these geniuses thought sailors had nothing better to do than unbolt winches!). The grease now stays clean for about twice as long as it used to.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
While no one could have predicted the market for stratospherically priced old cars, stamps and other "collectibles" or "hedges against inflation" (more realistically described as, "neat toys for people with too much money and time on their hands"), I really, really doubt the emergence of a market in collectible C&C 27's. So, no, your boat isn't worth any more money but it may give you a useful conversational lever as long as you don't overdo it.
That is, of course, if there is any basis for the claim that it's a "first". A 1974 boat is not particularly old. Read the material in Overview and Evolution to get a perspective on 27 production.
If it is a 1974, your boat certainly would have the moulded-in HIN on the stern. It may also have a builder's plate in the cockpit with an embossed number. Either one might give you some data for assessing the previous owner's claim.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Let me repeat something I said back when I had an Atomic 4 and used both manuals, which I found complemented one another - Have a look at the Links & Contacts page where you will find links to the Atomic 4 Service Manual, which takes you out to the limit of what many people are comfortable doing, including such tasks as tune-ups, shaft alignment, transmission adjustment and winterization. On the Moyer Marine site you'll find Mr. Moyer's very comprehensive manual, intended to help you do everything you might conceivably want to do, including a complete rebuild. The add-ons from Moyer and Indigo are well worth considering.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
The gas: I had 2-year-old-fuel in my boat and the mechanic told me to get rid of it, so we mixed it in the gas of several club boats. On the other hand, you might say that 2-year-old 2009 gas has deteriorated to the point where it's like 1940's gas, which is when the Atomic 4 was designed, so why worry? The only real issue is if this stuff has been sitting in the carb - old gas can age into a varnish that blocks the carb jets, which can be a bore. But you say the engine starts well, so you shouldn't worry. I'd use as much as I could this season, then replace all of it for winter layup (with stabilizer) and start next year fresh.
Next spring, install the Racor; it's almost certainly better than your "little filter", whatever it may be. Note, though, that the cartridges for a Racor are about $40 each and you must replace them every two years or they gum up (it's supposed to be one year but I've always done two and never had any consequences from this little economy). Write the date on the outside of the cartridge so you remember. At the same time, replace the stupid little screen in the electric fuel pump; these are infuriatingly prone to clogging (some people simply take these out, on the reasonable assumption that nothing is going to get past a decent external filter anyway).
I assume that by "little filter", you are referring to a unit that is external to the engine, so you could mount the Racor where it the little one now is. Alternatively you could use my location, on the transverse bulkhead in the cockpit locker next to the tank; that's quite convenient and doesn't take a space that could be used for something else.
When you install the nipples that the hoses attach to, do not use Teflon tape. Many people do, a reflex from installing plumbing fixtures. I was warned that Teflon tape dissolves in gasoline and diesel, then reconstitutes itself in narrow passages, like carbs and injectors. I used a small amount of pipe dope.
One last thing - be sure your Racor is a gas-approved one. Racor sells a filter with a clear bowl, so you can see if there's water in the fuel (as below), but this is only for diesels. A gas engine filter should be gas-engine approved, which usually means all metal. If you decide to replace the fuel hose (not a bad idea) at the same time, make sure it's gas-engine and marine approved. A sharp-eyed surveyor might otherwise refuse to pass your boat on its next insurance inspection/survey.
<img src="http://www.cc27association.com/photos/racor.jpg">
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
One of the trickiest issues in installing a new tank, I think, might be getting the tank through the hatch without pulling the engine. (I measured the opening once when it seemed that I would have to replace my tank, but the problem turned out not to be related to the tank.) If you take the teak surround off the lazarette opening, you could cut the fibreglass back quite a bit to enlarge the opening. Once the teak is replaced, you'd never know the cut was there.
I have no idea whether this tank would fit because I no longer have the measurements - sorry.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
I'd be very careful about bleach. It's good for killing bacteria and algae, but it won't clean solid contaminants from the pipes. Moreover, some plastics won't tolerate it in even moderate concentrations (such as you'd use in a washing machine), so you can ruin the pipes or a pump.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
> the sink would pump ... (dirty) water.
I think that's probably your clue - dirt in the water system. Aboard our boat we found there were gribbledies (a technical term) floating in the water that the suction of the pump was pulling into the line. Once you stop pumping, they float away, hence the intermittent problem.
Start at the tank - open the inspection port and look inside for crud. If you can't look inside, try disconnecting the water line then filling the tank and letting it drain a couple of times - running a volume of water into the bilge may clear the tank. Keep doing this until the flow is free of crud. As to the pump line, I'd just hold a hose and the line (disconnected at both ends) together in my hand and let the hose pressure clear the line. Once you've done this (and mopped up all the water that's been sprayed all over in the process), try hooking the pump up to a source of clean water (a bucket thereof) and pumping until the pump is clear. In theory everything should now be okay, so hook the system up again and test. Good luck.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
If you don't replace the washer, I think the worst that could happen is that the rudder might, very occasionally, rise up and rub against the hull. Since our rudders are much heavier than water (mine is, anyway), that should be a rare event.
I made a new one when I had my rudder off, from 1/8" sheet nylon.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Leaving aside that most everyone dislikes Goris, if it's rattling and vibrating, there are probably more issues than the prop alone. The cutless bearing is probably the main culprit, but if it's really loose, it may have worn the shaft to the point that it should be replaced, too. Search the forum for many discussions of prop shafts and their ills.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
For any refinishing application on a boat that would normally call for steel wool, substitute bronze wool. It's expensive compared to steel wool, but won't leave rust specks behind. Chandleries should have it and big-box hardware or industrial supply stores may have it (it has a variety of industrial uses).
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
That you have a wheel vs a tiller makes a big difference in how people dispose themselves around the cockpit while racing.
On a boat with a wheel, the main trimmer tends to stand in the cockpit just aft of the track during a tack or gybe to make any necessary adjustments; often the cam cleats are oriented aft, but whether athwartships or aft, it's relatively easy for the trimmer to exert sufficient strength to shift the car quickly.
On a boat with a tiller, the main trimmer tends to sit on the coaming beside the helmsperson. With our original/present setup, the trimmer moves the car simply by reaching down beside the coaming and pulling the line directly up or easing it down; he or she is well placed to exert a good solid pull. With the windward sheeting car, he or she had to bend almost double to exert a pull horizontal to the track, without which the line would not go in the cleat (and that's not changeable). The problem is redoubled when it's blowing; when the boat is lying on its ear, the poor main trimmer is fighting with the helmsperson for something to brace against while simultaneously bending double, which puts him or her in an unbalanced position with the head (his or hers) lower than the tail. Uncomfortable, ineffective and potentially dangerous. Everyone hated it, so I took it off.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
We didn't like the windward sheeting car on Towser because the person on the mainsheet sits on the coaming forward of the helmsperson. Since that model of car didn't allow you to angle the cleats upward, it meant that the person handling the main had to bend double to get the crosshaul cleated. No one liked doing that. Moreover, it put the mainsheet person in a bad position with respect to leverage and the ability to heave on the line. The original (and now restored) set-up allows people to exert their full strength.
So if anyone wants to buy a windward sheeting kit for an original Harken mainsheet car...
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Why chance it? I have a friend who had to make a fast trip to the Travellift because his drill bit was longer than his hull was thick. Putting in a screw cost him $100.00 - not fun. I'm not crazy about creating a path for water to enter the laminate, either, even if your screw hole does stop short of the lake.
For wires, I'd use a string of those 3M "Command" cable clips with the removable adhesive strips to fasten the clips to the underside of the sole. These worked for me in the galley lockers; if the adhesive doesn't work in the bilge, I'd just fix them with fast-acting epoxy.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
I put my handrails on 12 years ago with 3M 5200. I know everyone hates the stuff ("screw the next guy" caulk, one friend calls it), but it has remained tight since installation. When I need to get it off, I'll use a bit of acetone to soften it up (if it doesn't break it altogether) and slit the joint with fine piano wire.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
This may come rather late for many, as most clubs are launched now. However, note for the future that West System G/flex Epoxy has maintained a smooth, gap-free joint for a full season and a lay-up (which I think stresses the forward part of the joint more than sailing).
Last spring, I found that a considerable chunk of filler had fallen from the joint. After the usual flailing around, I called Gougeon Brothers' tech support and asked their opinion. They said that one of their mob had had a similar problem with a different type of boat and everything seemed okay at that point, so I ordered some G/flex (it's not always available in stores). I cleaned the joint back to bare glass and bare lead and applied the G/flex.
G/flex Epoxy is thick, but it still runs over time, so I filled the joint and then wrapped the area with plastic wrap buttressed with cardboard, duct tape, a couple of 2x4 props, the kitchen sink and a few other items that fell to hand as a "form" to hold the epoxy in place. Next day, when the form was removed, I had a filled joint with negligible sag. A light sand, some VC-17 and we were ready for the Travellift.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV