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Every year, at least one of the yachting mags runs a story similar to yours - big surprise, "stainless" isn't, disaster averted (or not) by a hairs-breadth. But usually some place exotic where the author has to move heaven and earth to get a fix. But don't feel bad about it, because the nature of the cause means the damage always happens out of sight.
By the sound of it, you had a nasty case of crevice corrosion. My understanding is that stainless steel, like aluminum, protects itself from corrosion by forming a self-renewing and resistant surface film. Problem is that part of the film is oxygen, either from the air or from water. After a while, water that's not moving (as in, between a clamp and a rubber hose) becomes depleted of free oxygen, the surface film breaks down and corrosion begins, and because it's in a closed space, you don't see it.
Your only recourse is to check areas like this on a regular schedule.
Problems like crevice corrosion are exacerbated by the amount of dodgy product now on the market. Time was, when you bought marine hose clamps, they were real honest 316 stainless steel. Now you can get "marine" hose clamps made of whatever, from China, Viet Nam or wherever. Read Black Arts' "Bargain Gear", inspired by surveyor Scott Scholer's experiences – caveat emptor.
Roger Taylor wrote a very good book 25 years ago called "The Elements of Seamanship" which astonishingly is still in print (see it on Amazon). It includes a description and rationale for a US Navy process similar to the one described by Doog.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Does anyone know of a deflation pump for inflatable pfd's?
Some time ago we took a sea-safety course whose instructor told us that inflatable pfd's should be stored over the winter on hangers, lightly inflated. Fine. But come spring, squeezing air out of the bladder while holding the cap in place is not easy (and you have to get it all out for the pfd to pack smoothly). A deflation pump that held the valve open would make my annual task of repacking our collection of pfd’s much easier.
Anyone know of such a thing?
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
This reminds me of the ancient joke about the two (insert nationality you want to insult here) guys who are told to measure the height of a flagpole. One says, "It's really light - let's just lower it and run a tape along it." The other answers, "No, dummy, he told us to measure the height, not the length. You'll have to climb it." And he does.
This problem is a lot easier. The Evolution page gives us the I and the J for a Mark I (33' and 11.75' - call it 12' for simplicity), so by simple geometry, the distance from masthead to the tack pin is 35.2'. Add another 33' to bring the halyard back down to the deck (68.2') plus the length of the boom, E or 10.5', to bring it back to the cockpit plus a bit (78.7'), then whatever fudge factor you think necessary. Done.
And there I couldn't see the point of high school math!
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
No testimonials, but I would suggest to you that Dacron or polyester line is a commodity these days. There are no secrets to weaving, so it really comes down to the materials. I would look for a manufacturer who uses North American or European material and whose threadlines run the full length of the reel (some bargain lines are made with threads that are not end-to-end). Sorry, but that's all I know.
On a slightly different note - watch out for line that people are throwing away. Many people discard line that is really only dirty or mildewed. But dirt and mildew are only cosmetic problems. Put the line in a large lingerie bag or tie the coil loosely with string and wash it, preferably in a horizontal-drum washer (go to a laundromat if you need to - the line will get much cleaner). Use ordinary laundry detergent, nothing else - bleach will ruin the line. Voila - new line at the best possible price.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
I haven't answered this because my experience of this setup is old and I didn't want to say something I mis-remembered; recently I used this system, which has refreshed my memory and added a couple of new dislikes, so here goes...
Double-tackle systems should work reasonably well on a broad reach to a run, but one of the goals for most owners is to simplify the rig, so there's no vang - a poor omission in my view. The main turns into a shapeless rag. Once you come up to closehauled, the appropriate mix of boom position athwartships and leach tension requires a degree of fiddling that most people can't achieve with ease - or want to bother with, so the boat doesn't go to weather as a C&C27 should. You might as well be sailing a Catalina. You also end up with a lot of line in the cockpit, which defeats one of the objects, which is keeping the cockpit clear.
If you want to clear the cockpit at the dock, put a ring on your traveller and a snapshackle on the lower mainsheet block then shift the block out to the rail when you want more space. The double tackle on the coachroof is a clumsy compromise.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
People either recognize the value we offer or they don't. We're not into promoting that value.
Also, working the boat show (in fact any trade or consumer show) is a gruelling experience that no one would wish on his friends or himself. I used to sail one of the dinghies that is annually represented at the show – why we bothered I don't know and after about ten years of it, I simply refused to participate. I am 99% sure that we never attracted anyone new to the boats; mostly we talked to tiresome old parties who would launch into interminable reminiscences of some imperfectly recalled experience now best lost in the mists of time, or people who were dreaming of sailing around the world but had been chased off the stands for larger boats because they were suspected of being mentally defective. Sundays are Divorced Dads Days, when men with weekend custody of the little brutes would bring them in for an Uplifting & Educational Experience, so you'd have to go through the motions of explaining the appeal of sailing a small boat, while the brutes would stand oblivious, calculating when they could weasel another hot dog out of the old man. Occasionally (this is more common on stands where something is being sold), you'd get some totally resentful prick who had wandered in a building fury through the whole thing, getting madder and madder because it was gradually dawning on him that he couldn't afford anything that would attract the pneumatic 20-yr-old sex-slave of his dreams – so he'd take it out on you in some utterly poisonous passive-aggressive fashion. One particularly weird episode featured a 27 sailor who excoriated me for failing to recognize his fantastic contributions to this site, which had revived it from somnolence, saved it from irrelevance, in fact (uh-hunh).
On the other hand, you do get a free ticket to the show. But despite the lure of that offer, I don't think we have plans in that direction.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
See http://www.cc27association.com/fixes/props.html and search the Forum. As far as I know, Flex-o-Fold is only sold direct from New England. Helpful vendor and I'm still very happy with the prop. Other vendors at the Show, but I have no experience of them.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
If you google "C&C 27 gooseneck" or "C&C 27 parts", you just might find someone who is parting out an old boat but a surer solution is to contact one or both of Klacko Spars and South Shore Yachts. The first is a past supplier to the company and the second is former C&C employees who specialize in providing parts. See the Contacts page.
I can't picture the gooseneck attachment, but would it be possible to grind out part of the track below the present mounting position, remove the screws that hold the fitting in position, then slide the casting down and out?
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Do I recall any of these dimensions? From ten years ago? Not likely. But I was on the boat yesterday, so here we go...
The sheave is around 1 1/2 inch diameter to 1 5/8 inch diameter (can't see it clearly to measure without disassembly) and one quarter of an inch wide (if you have the same casting on the boom as I do, you'll see that's the controlling dimension and you could probably get a good sense of the maximum permissible diameter by measuring from the drilled axle hole). Can't tell you what size the hole for the axle is, but I remember there is an oilite bearing on it, which helps keep it running smoothly. The outhaul wire is 1/8" 7x19 wire. Note that the gooseneck casting approximately mirrors the boom end casting, so someone in the design office clearly had the idea that a wire could lead from the boom end to the gooseneck and then down to the to an adjusting tackle or the deck.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Prop pulling normally only is problematic with some folding props. Almost any puller will do for a 2-blade fixed prop. The C-clamp style with a screw bearing on the centre of the shaft is preferable to the type you hit with a mallet.
I'd double-check that shaft diameter (not that it's particularly relevant to this task); most 27's have a 7/8" shaft.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Sensible divers don't take on tasks that involve tiny setscrews on top of setscrews. Nor do they undertake to juggle a hub, a shaft key, a shaft nut and blades. Or Loctite, which doesn't work under water.
Sorry you've missed your installation window, but do it once, do it right – if you've not done it before, folding props are a mental and physical juggling act that need to be done on the hard. Otherwise you end up like a member of my club, who found his new prop had spun off somewhere between Trenton and Belleville.
Not a great role model, Cdr Crabb. More like an admonition.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
There's not a lot of info on Gori installations on the web. Does this help?
http://ab-marine.com/Gori/2-Blade-Installation
BTW - make sure you use the specified grade of Loctite or you'll have a devil of a time getting the prop off for service.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
I removed my mast step (to drill a mounting hole in the side) some years ago so my memory is hazy. I think the "inaccessible" bolts are in fact very long wood screws that extend into the bulkhead below. I didn't find any indication that there was water entry.
I second what Clare has said about the wiring holes. The bedding compound on the deck gland breaks down every few years, as does the wire-to-gasket seal in the gland.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
North Saanich BC and San Diego are salt water, but all the other venues here are fresh water, as is Toronto, and in the time I've had Towser (since '97), I've not had a fastener seriously seize. At most, a drop of penetrating oil and a tap on the head (the fastener's, not the crew's) with a light hammer will loosen a stuck screw.
The one area I'd use an anti-seize compound is if I were working on the engine, but I've kept strictly to routine maintenance, which doesn't call for it.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
I would suggest that after the passage of so much time, the original stain colour will have altered considerably. If I were you, I'd get something that looks close, along with some small tins of colours that will modify your starting colour (maybe a small tin of a red hue plus ebony, to neutrally darken). Mix (recording what you add and in what quantity) until you have something that looks reasonable, then apply some to a test piece of the wood you're using. Let it dry, evaluate and adjust until you're satisfied.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Towser is a Mk IV, but from the Mk I's I've seen, there is no difference in the spars or masthead fittings, so I feel confident in advising you, to wit...
Problem 1: If you're willing to go to Spectra or Vectran for your halyard, 1/2" is waaay oversize. Towser has had 5/16" Warpspeed (Spectra with a polyester cover) for all halyards for about the last five years. If the forestay fittings at the masthead would chafe the halyard, consider a halyard restrainer (http://hardware.schaefermarine.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=103_179) to hold the halyard against the mast until it's clear of the forestay upper fittings. This will also help tame your halyard's tendency, if any, to wrap around the sail as it furls or unfurls.
Problem 2: If Mohammed cannot come to the mountain, the mountain must come to Mohammed (or vice versa). You have to get at that masthead fitting. A rope halyard should not be set on a wire sheave if you want any life from it. That means dropping the mast, removing the masthead casting by drilling out the rivets and replacing the sheave(s) (might as well do them all). You could re-attach the masthead fitting by tapping and screwing into the original holes or riveting. Sorry, but I don't know the diameter of the sheave or its axle.
And Question 1: The length of halyard you need = (distance between the jib tack fitting and the upper side of the sheave) + (vertical distance between upper side of the sheave and the mast base) + (the length of tail desired - which may include the length required to run the halyard aft). If you change your mind and decide to stick with wire/rope, the wire should terminate just before the winch if possible. You can measure the vertical distances by hauling the end of a 50- or 100-foot tape to the masthead on any available halyard. Or you can wing it a bit and take the mast height in Evolution, double it, add a foot and a half for the added distance to the tack fitting, add the desired tail with a little fudge factor and you'll probably end up with much the same figure.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Towser has a Harken fiddle with cam cleat as part of the backstay adjustment tackle. You might repurpose yours.
The levers on my original Spinlocks got brittle after ten or eleven years - or the person who stepped on two of them (two at one time!) when they were open is heavier than she looks. The new ones look as good as new after three. I wouldn't worry about it too much.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
It never fails to amaze me when some clown decides, on the basis of having hosed it down once a year, that his piece of used gear is now a valuable antique. Never mind - something sized for a 30 is probably a bit big anyway.
As to stoppers - I replaced the PO's Easylocks, which slipped prodigiously and ate line in the process, with first-generation Spinlocks. Lines tended to creep through them, but they didn't chew up the line. Downsizing my halyards gave me the opportunity to replace these with second-generation Spinlocks. These are easier to use and don't allow nearly as much creep, but they do nevertheless. This isn't like, falling-down loosening of the halyard - just a discernible change in tension and sail shape over an hour or so. If you mark your halyards, you can see this easily and adjust periodically.
On the other hand, a friend with a C&C 99 hated his Spinlocks, claimed they couldn't hold up a clothesline and replaced them with Lewmars. I think - don't quote me - that Lewmars have to be sized very precisely to the line size (certainly on the one boat I've sailed on with Lewmars, the crew knots the halyards around the clutch body - not a great recommendation, but the halyards and stoppers may not be well paired).
I have no experience of current Easylocks - some of which still look like the crude rubbish I took off - or Garhauers. Perhaps someone else does?
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Boomkicker has minimal moving parts, they're all out in the open so you can see if things are chafed or wearing out, it doesn't squeak like spring vangs and is (if I remember correctly) much less expensive. Plus I have used enough different vangs to regard them all as a total pain. Boomkicker doesn't have any real bad points.
Except... everyone takes off the boom topping lift and I don't see the point - unless you want to give someone a real surprise when they lean on the boom to wrap a tie around the sail or to talk to someone in the next slip. I replaced the wire with a length of Amsteel; it doesn't chafe the leech of the sail and it's more than strong enough for the job.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Managing space for blocks, lines and stoppers or cam cleats is a real issue on a boat the size of a 27. Lines that we tinker with all the time come aft while reefing lines stay forward, as reefing is an either/or event thatisn't fiddled with once done.
My outhaul is inside the boom, my reefing gear (hook on gooseneck, leech reefing line on boom) is forward and my cam cleats are staggered to maximize space. You might do well to add the Boomkicker now to minimize disruption later on.
Choice of a stopper vs a cam cleat comes down primarily to loads as even high-load cam cleats aren't that strong (plus they are less secure). On Towser, halyards and the vang go to the stoppers while the outhaul, cunningham, pole lift, foreguy and genoa car controls go to cam cleats.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
I'd be disinclined to install an older engine, unless a) it's one of these never-completed-project engines that has been sitting in someone's basement in its crate for decades and b) it's being offered at pennies on the dollar. The problem with older engines is that they end-of-life engines very quickly these days, so you could be stranded for lack of some simple part. Our club's head mechanic told me about scouring the globe for a delisted part for a Volvo engine 12 years old – Yanmar is probably much the same.
The other issue with an engine of this vintage is that the old diesels were not designed for smooth running, just efficiency. I assume this is a single cylinder? If so, the vibration will flip quarters placed on the cockpit sole.
Finally, as Whippet notes, you will have to replace a number of other items in the boat, going from an A4: larger steel L's for the engine bed, better fuel filter; new return line to the tank; new exhaust hose; new anti-siphon valve for same; new water trap muffler; larger diameter stern exhaust fitting; new prop pitched for the engine and while you're at it, you might as well replace the stern gland, cutless bearing and shaft. Oh, and the control panel won't fit the existing opening. Putting all this together isn't terribly hard, but there's a lot to get through.
The mechanic noted above, who did about half the work on my changeover, thought it was pretty straightforward, but I was certainly glad to have him as a resource for the work I did.
Notwithstanding all the above, I'm glad to have a diesel. No, I wasn't afraid of the A4 blowing up but it was a balky, fussy, unreliable PITA and I'm glad to be rid of it.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
I hardwired one of these at the forward end of the v-berth and another on the main bulkhead over the dinette. They move a lot of air, they're quiet and they don't seem to draw much power. Lots of marine stores sell them (mine were from Genco).
Another option is to perch a standard window air conditioner on the foredeck and then construct a plenum leading to the forward hatch from scrounged cardboard and duct tape. Cooling that small space, a good unit can pull the temperature down to the point that ice will form around the waterline. Looks really stylishly yachty, too. (I wish I'd taken a photo - it was a C&C 25.)
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV
Thank you all for the kind words. None of this would be possible if it had not been for the people who have contributed ideas and information over the years. I am not going to attempt to thank them individually, for fear of insulting someone by missing an obvious worthy, but any search is bound to turn up at least one of the names of a major contributor or two.
These comments also validate the long-ago decision to enforce a visible conversation within the forum, rather than letting people initiate a dialogue, then continue with the substance of a discussion via e-mail or private messages. The result is that we have a huge body of searchable information about these boats. The lion's share is very practical, experience-based and intelligently written rather than conjectural or wildly argumentative, a feature that sets it apart from a good many sailing forums I have read.
Finally, none of this would be possible without the financial support of members of the C&C 27 Association, whose dues support the presence of this site on the Web. People in the Electronic Frontier Foundation, etc. like to parrot that "Information wants to be free", to which we respond, "but bandwidth is billed monthly". Members, your support is appreciated.
Thank you again, and a great sailing season to all for 2015.
David Weatherston
Towser, Toronto
C&C 27 Mk IV